I'm about to give up

[*Nick*]

many of you may have read the difficulties I've had finding a Gundog Club around here for training and access to birds..if not, then I'll just say it's been very difficult.

Well, I found a reasonably local chapter of NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Assoc.) and was about to join when I read their newsletter  . They have a short Q and A section and this was the question and answer of the day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Rebecca, my dog keeps walking in front of me instead of
following beside me. What can I do?

A: I have the same problem with my Spinone then after
reading the green book. It states to simply step on his toes, then he will pay
attention to you and be on the look out where you are going. Good
luck, we are still working with pulling, it takes time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Green Book is apparently their training 'bible'

So, that's that. Apparently I'm all alone in using positive training methods for gundogs. This is really starting to make me feel ill.

I could join and still use my own methods for training but I'm afraid the first time someone steps on toes or gives a shock with the collar I'm gonna frickin' lose it 


I guess there's only one thing to do and that's be a maverick, train to the highest standards using positive methods, take the tests and show the dinosaurs a different way.  Wish me luck, Hope I'm up for it 

[Gracie]

Fly Bev out 

Sorry to hear, but erm, the fact that she is still working on the pulling, after stepping on toes, does that not make her think its NOT working, and how do you stop on a dogs toes when its pulling ahead of you 

[*Lassie*]

Sorry to hear that Nick
Train her yourself - kiz will help as much as she can and Sweetiepye may have some good tips too.
Someone needs to show these morons that you can train a dog with rewards not spiteful ways.

[*Nick*]

It just makes me furious Gracie.

Ya, so I guess she would have to run around in front of her dog and purposely stick out her foot so she can tread on its toes. I mean good lord!   

Not working??  Are you suggesting they try another method?!?! No, no no no, that isn't how you train a gunner ---(tongue firmly planted in cheek)

another guy said " I like to heel my dog close so I can give him "what for" (words to that effect) if he steps out of line"


so pissed right now 

[*Nick*]

Sorry to hear that Nick
Train her yourself - kiz will help as much as she can and Sweetiepye may have some good tips too.
Someone needs to show these morons that you can train a dog with rewards not spiteful ways.

Thanks Lassie, I can't begin to say how much I've learned from Kiz and other members here alreeady but sometimes i just need some 'on-hand' support. You know, kindred souls and all that..plus the access to birds is invaluable

When I said 'give-up' I don't mean give up on the training just give up on finding a club to train with.   If i had a clue I'd start my own 

[xtine]

Is very sad ... there are naiive / inexperienced people out there who will read that and think that that must be the right way to do it - cause they saw it in print

That's why this place is so valuable... showing another way to do it

[*Lassie*]

Sorry to hear that Nick
Train her yourself - kiz will help as much as she can and Sweetiepye may have some good tips too.
Someone needs to show these morons that you can train a dog with rewards not spiteful ways.

Thanks Lassie, I can't begin to say how much I've learned from Kiz and other members here alreeady but sometimes i just need some 'on-hand' support. You know, kindred souls and all that..plus the access to birds is invaluable

When I said 'give-up' I don't mean give up on the training just give up on finding a club to train with.   If i had a clue I'd start my own 

May sound like a daft idea but have you thought about putting an advert in the local paper asking if anyone trains gundogs using positive methods. If trainers are very good they don't always need to advertise, they have a waiting list. You may find some like minded souls to work with as a support network

[GSPmad]

So, that's that. Apparently I'm all alone in using positive training methods for gundogs. This is really starting to make me feel ill.

well i didn't think people trained gundogs using positive methods in this country - hence why i never even attempted to find a gundog club - the vids i bought on training - not bad, but too much jerking on lead etc for my liking and pushing bums down etc (and the spaniel training basic one  - not that i have a spaniel but i was interested - that ruddy man wants shooting  ).... and heard plenty on choke collars and prong collars - and saw the working gundog demo at the local country fair by the man who did the local gundog training 

lab ran in on dummy 'he's just being enthusiastic so i'm not going to be harsh on him' picked him  up by neck\head and carried him back to where he was sat.... then doing spaniel demo with springer... had labs in trailer in field - spaniel started running round at edges of fence trying to get into crowd instead of stay in field with 'trainer' (looked like trying to escape to me) - 'oh spaniels are stupid' - then he working it in demo - young dog - then it started literally throwing itself at bars of cage at back of trailer to try to get back with other dogs.  i walked off at that point - couldn't bear to watch any more.

did some very brief gundog training with duibh with his breeder's mentor who works her dogs... went twice i think - point at which she decided i was being too 'soft' and took him off me to show me how to walk him to heel - he did an excited flatcoat bounce into air (which was quite a thing for him as he was always rather depressed at the time  ) and she clobbered him one. 

so no more gundog training.....

yet having looked into it further since i had been told about helen philips at LAD who trains gundogs positively - and then there's kiz...

so what i'm saying is positive gundog trainers seem from my experience to be in a minority over here too - so maybe you need to dig deeper, post on internet put up ads etc.... 

[GSPmad]

show 'em how it's done nick. 

[*Nick*]

Those are good ideas lassie and Terry, thanks.  Going to post on Helens clicker gundog and the positive gundog yahoo groups and see if there's anyone near me who wants to team up

maybe there's hope yet 

[*Nick*]

then I'll fly bev over 

[wags]

you feel like giving up

my day yesturday
- woke up freezing in tent
- starts raining
- matt burns hand on fat cooking
- go help out
- run dog - dog freeks out at A frame (second obstical) end up walking him A frame and popping him over last fence
- rain gets worse and worse and worse
- tent starts leaking
- Joe electrocutes himself and goes to hospital
- tent soaking - shove it all together - throw everything onto truck
- we go home and have an indoor BBQ
 

[*Lassie*]

OOOhhh Wags what a day, is Joe Ok
Hope you had some Vodka in, sounds like you needed it

[Val]

Fun day at a dog event then  Hope Joe is OK and dad Matt have a drink to thaw out
Val

you feel like giving up

my day yesturday
- woke up freezing in tent
- starts raining
- matt burns hand on fat cooking
- go help out
- run dog - dog freeks out at A frame (second obstical) end up walking him A frame and popping him over last fence
- rain gets worse and worse and worse
- tent starts leaking
- Joe electrocutes himself and goes to hospital
- tent soaking - shove it all together - throw everything onto truck
- we go home and have an indoor BBQ
 

[Val]

Wags were you at the Lune Valley Agility Show I heard they had to abandon that show today