Pedigree Dogs Exposed new petition

[Bevers2406]

10 Downing Street have recently approved the wording for our petition...

Here it is:

Following the powerful Pedigree Dogs Exposed documentary on
BBC1 the Kennel Club still seems reluctant to grasp the nettle,
face the problems and reform itself. The program revealed it
urgently needs to bring in mandatory minimum standards on
levels of inbreeding, make health testing mandatory, prevent
unhealthy physical exaggerations being rewarded and stop the
culling of healthy non-standard pups by changing breed
standards. The KC continually complains that it lacks the
backing of legislation to bring in these urgent and much needed
reforms, so we the undersigned urge the Prime Minister please
instigate legislation to ensure pedigree dogs are saved from
unnecessary future suffering.

If you would like to add your name to this petition please go to this link:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ReformtheKC/

Please post this far and wide if you agree. The Swedish KC has legislation behind them that makes them able to be much stronger than our KC is at present. More details and post documentary coverage (currently the Cavalier King Charles Club intended action against Margaret Carter) on my blog should you be interested. (Hopefully see below if my profile change has worked! if not google coldwetnose.blogspot)

Best wishes
Beverley

[*Nick*]

so we the undersigned urge the Prime Minister please
instigate legislation to ensure pedigree dogs are saved from
unnecessary future suffering.

the Prime Minister?! really?!     The last thing in the world that dog owners in this country would want is politicians to get involved...talk about an accident waiting to happen    Maybe things work differently over there but I think you're just asking for trouble...remember politicians make up their minds on any issue based on the amount of votes they can get. kinda like you do with hits on your blog (what was the addy again?) --   just think of the worst case scenario and a politician will make that happen.

best of luck

[Bevers2406]

If you view the KC webchat in response to the TV prog (accessible from their website) you'll see that the reason they give for not doing more is the lack of legislation. In Sweden their KC is backed up with legislation - and while I know they are very different you don't have huge numbers of dogs in rescue, don't have puppy farms, don't have dogs for sale in pet shops - plus you also have dogs being bred in a much more logical way with restrictions on inbreeding and health testing (and taking notice of the results) the norm.

A tougher KC introducing mandatory minimum standards backed up with legislation would really help - and it's something they themselves have flagged up.

Not so much a case of the police at our door, just making it possible for our KC to be as good and strong as the Swedish one. There's changes that would need to be made to ours first - democracy being one of them - in Sweden all the owners of dogs are equal members, wouldn't that be great - pet owners having the same standing as show.

The petition will also remind the KC that it can't just put its head in the sand and hope this all goes away - it mustn't if we want these breeds to be around for the next human generation to enjoy. If this doesn't work we are indeed likely to get Defra legislating without the KC being involved at all and that will be knee jerk and clumsy.

Hope you'll sign!

[Val]

I read this earlier and walked away but sorry had to come back.

The last thing in this world I need anywhere near my dogs is a politician I have enough problems as it is just with the KC and Pekingese, they came up with the wonderful notion that we have a heart problem there answer is we will have to be health checked they are calling it a Veterinary Passport at our expense of course.
A club tested 87 dogs and found one with a heart problem WAY YA GO he was eleven and a half years old
All this in a breed that bred 567 pups last year by the way we don't have heart problems we have some back problems and some have pinched nostrils but nothing that can't be sorted, we may lose all our CC's if all the clubs can't work together on our heart problem by the way there are 18 clubs country wide we do all agree on one thing people like you are not helping as now the KC are not even waiting for clubs to hold meeting they are just bashing there way through our breed.
As you may gather I want nothing to do with your in-depth feature to do with Pekingese for Dogs Today I am too busy saving my own breed and I don't trust what you may say
One thing we do all agree on is with or without the KC and their precious pieces of cardboard we will go on breeding in a small way one of the healthiest toy breeds this country has whatever the likes of you the KC or the EU say
Val
Who yet again is having to take all three of my pekes on a round two hundred mile plus trip to add to the KC statistics next Saturday at a cost to the club of 12 quid per dog but Hey what do breeders know  statistics are what matter.
It would also be good if you stopped waving the flag for the Swedish KC if you spoke to a few beardie breeders out there you would find it's not all healthy and fine

[Izzie]

10 Downing Street have recently approved the wording for our petition...

Here it is:

Following the powerful Pedigree Dogs Exposed documentary on
BBC1 the Kennel Club still seems reluctant to grasp the nettle,
face the problems and reform itself. The program revealed it
urgently needs to bring in mandatory minimum standards on
levels of inbreeding, make health testing mandatory, prevent
unhealthy physical exaggerations being rewarded and stop the
culling of healthy non-standard pups by changing breed
standards. The KC continually complains that it lacks the
backing of legislation to bring in these urgent and much needed
reforms, so we the undersigned urge the Prime Minister please
instigate legislation to ensure pedigree dogs are saved from
unnecessary future suffering.

If you would like to add your name to this petition please go to this link:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ReformtheKC/

Please post this far and wide if you agree. The Swedish KC has legislation behind them that makes them able to be much stronger than our KC is at present. More details and post documentary coverage (currently the Cavalier King Charles Club intended action against Margaret Carter) on my blog should you be interested. (Hopefully see below if my profile change has worked! if not google coldwetnose.blogspot)

Best wishes
Beverley

Whats so great about Sweden's KC?

Whats having legislation going to do?

Having someone who probably doesnt give a toss about dogs isnt going to solve the problems is it!

It should be down to the breed clubs to provide guidelines and help people looking for a puppy- the KC should be working with the breed clubs and promoting their hard work and research into health issues- not hiding behind a politician.

I know some breed clubs have their standards and they work hard with their members to maintain those standards. This should be about the hard work the breed clubs do, not about politics.

[Rough]

No way!  I've always thought that you were out of step with just about everyone on here!

[Relay]

So that's a 'No' from you then Val? LOL

To be honest i think petitions like this could potentially do more harm than good so soon after the expose on pedigree dogs because the dust has still not settled & people are still up in arms about it which would make them much more likely to make rash decisions in signing without thinking the implications through - that in itself would be knee jerk & clumsy.

I'm not suggesting that it doesn't need to be addressed at a government level but i am not sure the time is right so soon after the program. What is needed is a measured response as opposed to a hysterical one based on hightened feelings.

[Bevers2406]

Mark, if you have a  look the petition doesn't close for 6 months, plenty of time for contemplation. And Val, no you hadn't had the courtesy of replying to my email so I didn't know until now that you didn't want to be involved in a routine feature about your breed aimed at pet people!

And anyone here want to say what's so much worse about  a system that has had mandatory health testing for 20 plus years, where everyone who owns a dog is a member, where there's no thousands of unwanted dogs destroyed each year or pups sold in pet shops.... have to say Sweden looks rather good from where I'm standing!

[Val]

As I found your email in my spam bin today (right place for it really) and as I was suprised at the arrogant's  of you asking ME a KC registered breeder to help you sell something that doesn't need selling we don't breed enough anyway, Our pet market is a long waiting list for the crippled unhealthy dogs that we do breed and as for how I live with them as I said I would not trust you to write in the paper what I had said.

As for the Swedes not every disease has a mandatory health test.
If you want to take up a good cause try the Puppy Farmers and leave the likes of me to enjoy my dogs and showing
Val
 

Mark, if you have a  look the petition doesn't close for 6 months, plenty of time for contemplation. And Val, no you hadn't had the courtesy of replying to my email so I didn't know until now that you didn't want to be involved in a routine feature about your breed aimed at pet people!

And anyone here want to say what's so much worse about  a system that has had mandatory health testing for 20 plus years, where everyone who owns a dog is a member, where there's no thousands of unwanted dogs destroyed each year or pups sold in pet shops.... have to say Sweden looks rather good from where I'm standing!

[Izzie]

I have to agree with Val, why go after the reputable Breeders who DO care about the health and welfare of their dogs?

You need to look at the bigger picture which includes getting rid of pet shops selling pups, tackling puppy farmers all over the UK, putting a stop to pet breeding, stopping adverts in newspapers for dogs and Educating people in how to purchase a pup properly and what people should do when they cannot look after their pet instead of sticking them on a freead site and hoping the dog goes to a 'nice' home.

You go after the reputable breeders, we wont have any left and then what?

[Relay]

Mark, if you have a  look the petition doesn't close for 6 months, plenty of time for contemplation.

I do take your point Beverly, however i am willing to wager that a large amount (if not most) of the people who sign it within it's first week will be doing so on a whim from an impassioned (is that a word?) point of view because they saw it on that awful program on tellyabout the poor pedigree dogs and it made them cry etc, etc - rather than because they have thought long and hard about the full implications that could potentially cause more harm than good if polititions started poking about in something they have a limited understanding of.

Like i said, i am not saying that it should not be addressed at a government level, i just think the timing needs to be well planned to filter out the people who might not have thought very hard about what they are putting thier name to.

[Bevers2406]

We are campaigning for a stronger KC where reputable breeding becomes the norm - and the existing good breeders should be screaming for it, too!

The majority of litters registered are from first time breeders who need firm guidance - which they don't get at the moment.

You're getting the wrong end of the stick - we totally respect breeders who health test and take notice of the results. But sadly those that test are in the minority - look at the facts. Only 6% of puppies registered in the gundog group in the last BRS were from Accredited Breeders - which is a flawed scheme but better than nothing. It's a pathetic number.

Only 60,000 Labradors have ever been hip scored since the scheme began over 30 years ago. The KC registers 45k a year. Who in their right mind breeds from untested Labs?

Mandatory testing, controls on effective population sizes by limiting the overuse of sires etc - simple things that need bringing in - well really needed bringing in 20 years ago really when the nordic Kcs brought it in. But certainly need bringing in now.

You make there a distinction between what I want and what you want Val - but we should be on the same side if we love dogs and want there to be a future for pedigree breeds. You might do the right thing, but look at the stats. The majority don't.

And the feature on Pekes was scheduled from yonks ago - nothing controversial and we just wanted to photograph your dogs, didn't need any words from you - although we do alwaysinclude one person's personal exerience of living with their breed- and you get copy approval on that... did you think I'd change your words to say what what precisely? Why are you being so very rude? Saying you can't trust me is a bit off - isn't there a moderators handbook that tells you not to overstep those boundaries? It was a perfectly pleasant, polite request! A simple no thank you would have been appreciated - or even a blunt no!

The objective of our Fido Facts is not to promote or push breeds - it's to give an in-depth guide to anyone choosing a dog - we've done over 100 so far with the co-operation of breed clubs many of whom use the end results at Discover Dogs and the like.

If you'd like to reconsider and start again, all I was was asking was if you'd like to come to a photoshoot or if you knew anyone else with a Peke that would...

Eggshells or what!

And Mark, I was just saying if you're still unsure - give it a few months before you sign. All we're asking for is to give the KC the backing of legislation to bring in these reforms as they themselves flag that up as stumbling block and why they haven't followed our Swedish cousins.

And Val, if your beef with Sweden is that more health tests aren't yet mandatory then why aren't you backing this petition to get our health testing mandatory?

And finally - puppy farming. If you have a strong Kennel Club, where registration means something puppy farming will become unprofitable. Look at Sweden, no puppy farmers, no pups in pet shops. Strong KCs with meaningful registration clear up a lot of the dog problems in society. Sweden's response to all canine social issues has been impressive - why wouldn't we want that here.
 

[Prem2Pram]

I’m personally in favour of mandatory health testing, however I do have reservations about this petition, I’d like to know who would decide what health tests are to be made mandatory for each breed. I personally would not want anyone who doesn’t fully understand a breed making such decisions. 

[Val]

Fully agree Minpin I have no problem with mandatory health testing BUT it must be done by the people that know the breed not by members of the charmed circle, and they must be for problems in the breed not like what is happening with the Pekingese.
Also I think that those that do test should have all the results published in the breed supps.
Some years back now when I was on one of the beardie committees we decided to get dogs eyes checked at a club champ show, there had been reports of eye problems in the USA and as all the beardies come from here it made us as a breed wonder, so at great expence we tested hundreds of dogs we all got our papers rubber stamped and nothing was ever published because the KC do not have BC eyes on there list WHY not is my point it could be a problem we are the only collies without eye problems.
As it happened we are the lucky ones we don't have a problem but only by testing can we say that.
All this carry on with the Pekes is madness we know the problems but the KC are not talking to breeders just the charmed circle bit like Jemma she did not look at the whole picture just what made dramatic TV.
People that own the black and tan and the staffies have had this problem of blame the breed not the dead for years now the pedigree dogs have this problem blame the whole lot of us not just those that need to be taken to task.
Beverley I do apologise for answering your post on the board not for what I said but the way I did it, You have crossed swords with too many breeders to expect them to agree with anything you say even the good bits, but I think even you would be suprised at how may of us health check for things that never get published and how many of us spend hundreds of pounds flying blood and swabs around the world to check on the health of our stock.
Yes there is exaggeration in some breeds in the show ring why not target them not all breeds did you know the pekingese standard was changed in 1986 and again in 2004 because we wanted it changed.
And please don't get me started on the accredited breeders scheme the KC lost the plot on that the first week it came out the commercial  breeders and the puppy farmers love it even breeders that liked the idea are leaving it year by year yet again it's the KC making money
Val
Val

I’m personally in favour of mandatory health testing, however I do have reservations about this petition, I’d like to know who would decide what health tests are to be made mandatory for each breed. I personally would not want anyone who doesn’t fully understand a breed making such decisions. 

[Prem2Pram]

Val I fully understand where you are coming from because when I health tested my Miniature Pinschers and emailed copies of the results to the KC this is the reply I got:

Thank you for your email.  I have passed your comments to the Kennel Club's Health Co-ordinator, Diana Brooks-Ward, for her information. 
 
I would point out that health testing schemes are given official Kennel Club recognition only where the breed clubs have asked for this and where it is possible for the Kennel Club to verify independently the results.


It seems there are no health check requirements listed by the KC for the Miniature Pinscher even though the Miniature Pinscher Club code of ethics states:

4. No bitch or stud dog to be bred from without prior checking for clearance from inherited diseases in the light of current knowledge. Currently such diseases include:-

   1.       Patellar luxation
   2.      Addison's disease (Hypoadrenocorticism)
   3.      Legg Perthe's disease

5. No bitch or stud dog to be bred from which is known to have any of the above diseases, and veterinary advice to be sought in respect to related animals to affected ones being bred from, in the light of current veterinary knowledge.