dog nutrition

[kerrie and stan]

i know this has been on here before but i cant find them so if anyone can point me in the right direction or if anyone knows of good websites and books about dog nutrition for the homecooked/barf fed dog.thanks

[kendal]

barf/raw diet

http://www.rawfed.com/
http://www.ukbarfclub.co.uk/
http://www.rawlearning.com/
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#started
http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/feedingrawdiet.pdf

[kerrie and stan]

thankyou will give me something to read for a while

couldnt get onto the last one though

[kendal]

the last one is an ebook, or i think that is what it is called.

[Sweetypye]

Books (in order of simplicity/accessibility)

•   Switching to Raw by Sue Johnson
•   Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymythy Schulze
•   The Barf Diet by Ian Billingshurst
•   Give your Dog a Bone by Ian Billingshurst
•   Grow your pups with Bones by Ian Billingshurst
•   Work Wonders by Tom Lonsdale
•   Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale

[kerrie and stan]

i have requested for bev to do me a feeding programme but im interested in finding out how its done, so....

whats the meat/veg etc ratio?
can dogs be maintained on just meat and veg?
what do dogs need (eg.protien,energy)?
as stan cant have lamb would he be ok with beef/pork ribs? if not what bones would be good?


when i put him onto barf/homecooked lastime i dont think i did it right so this time i want to get it right, so please bear with me and my questions

Sweetypye i will see if my library has those books tomorrow thankyou

[kerrie and stan]

its ok i found the bones bit

Bone:
Any raw meaty bone is good for the dog – I do not feed beef at all but many do.
There are 2 types – the easy to crunch – for feeding as a meal, ribs, neck, shoulder etc and the big knuckle type, filled with good marrow. which cleans the teeth whilst the dog is getting the marrow out.  On a bone only day – for dogs 6 months and upwards – they need a combination of both – as a guide a 40k dog will need the equivalent of 2 large lamb breasts and 2 shin/knuckle bones – usually given early lunchtime if you feed twice daily then reduce this by a third and give lighter meal of 2nd class protein, fish or minced raw chicken/lamb with wholemeal, or pasta or rice – with fruit/veggies later.
To get the pup used to this quantity of bone then introduce a bone a day as one of the daily meals – start off with chicken necks and chicken wings and build it up.

curtasy of bev

[Sweetypye]

Quantities

For adults approximately 2 - 3% of their bodyweight per day. Calculate this by multiplying 2/3 by your dog's weight and dividing it by 100.

Eg 2 x 30/100 = 600g, 3 x 30/100 = 900g.

For puppies feed circa 10% of their present bodyweight or 2-3% of their projected adult weight per day.

However be guided by your hand and eye; if the dog is looking a little too ribby up the amount and reduce if the dog is looking a little too well padded! Dogs will vary on their requirements depending on age, sex, activity level, temperament and time of year etc.

Frequency
Dogs should be fed twice a day for the following reasons:
•   To minimise the risk of Bloat/GDV
•   To avoid blood sugar fluctuations

Meats

Lamb, beef, chicken, turkey, rabbit, pork, venison, duck, hare, and/or anything you can get your hands on; some dogs regularly chow down on more exotic species.

Dogs require the correct calcium:phosphorus ratio and so it is essential to feed raw meaty bones (RMBs) as well as muscle meat.

Offal such as hearts, lungs, kidneys, tripe, liver is also essential (although strictly speaking the heart is a muscle as is tongue.

Fish

Oily fish such as pilchards, mackerel, sardines, etc provide a good source of Omega 3; if it is difficult to obtain fresh, then tinned makes a good substitute.  Tuna may contain high levels of mercury and is a less valuable source of Omega 3.

Vegetables

Onions must not be fed to dogs in any form as they can cause haemolytic anaemia which can be fatal. Avocados contain persin which can produce problems in some animals.

All other vegetables may be fed however, for a dog to get any nutritional benefit from vegetables, they must either be pulped or frozen, otherwise they go out the way they went in and can only be used as source of fibre.

Oxalic acid can interfere with calcium absorption; so don't feed too much of Spinach or Chard.

Care should also be taken not to overfeed vegetables from the cruciferous family eg cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale, swedes, turnips and broccoli to dogs as this may inhibit thyroid function.

Tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and aubergines all belong to the nightshade family of plants. Dogs who have arthritis may be sensitive to these foods which may exacerbate their condition.  It is doubtful if raw potato can be digested successfully in any case.

Garlic is a useful addition to the diet as it performs an antiseptic, antibiotic, antifungal function.

Fruit

All except grapes (and raisins) which can cause kidney failure and death in even very small amounts.  Bananas are an excellent source of pre-biotics essential for gut health.

Bear in mind fruit and/or vegetables should not make up more than 10% of diet and can have a laxative effect!

Dairy

No animal post weaning consumes milk bar humans however live yoghurt can be very useful for poorly stomachs because of its probiotic content provided that dogs are not intolerant to lactose (milk sugar) and casein (milk protein).  As puppies leave their dams equipped with a full set of teeth bones are a more appropriate source of calcium.

Eggs can be given raw each day, the shells are good sources of calcium but only when powdered, otherwise they merely provide roughage. 

Grains/cereals

There is no proven need for carbohydrates in the dog’s diet and of course these need to be cooked before they can be successfully digested by the canine.

[kerrie and stan]

so dogs will be ok with just meat,veg/fruit and bones. sorry am trying to get it right in my head

[kendal]

we get our meet and bones from this place, http://www.landywoods.co.uk/ its a delivery every six weeks for us, but is dropping to every four weeks, which is going to be so much better now we ave the three dogs. but a small freezer just for the dogs is required.

also if you find a good butcher you can get chicken backs and wings for free, as they are just put to wast and the butch has to pay for them to be taken for pig feed. so they will gladly give them for free. just get them a case of bear and a scratch card at the end of the year as a thank you.

my gypsy wont touch chicken wings but loves the backs, she also wont touch minced chicken, i dont think she likes the texture. the other two love it.

its really just trial and error, you just need to take the plunge and see if it works. my friend tried it with her Jack x's but they have sensitive tummy's to begin with so she just went back to burns, as it is the only food so far that dosnt give them the runs. but i think she is planning on trying again at some point

just read as much as you can about it, and then work things out yourself. my girls just get meet and bones and maybe some veg left over from dinner. sometimes a raw egg once a week or every two weeks.

my girls also prefer there meet to be still partly frozen, i know that weird but they love to sit and munch on it. im defrosting the wee ones food but she keeps turning her nose up at it if the other two are fed at the same time, as she wants it still frozen too.


oops   went on a bit there, sorry guys

good luck

[kerrie and stan]

thanks kendal i just need to be carefull because of his allergies thats why im asking all the questions

[kendal]

thanks kendal i just need to be carefull because of his allergies thats why im asking all the questions

what are his allergies. my friend GSD is allergic to wheet i think, which makes his skin very red sore and flaky. since swithcing to raw it has all but cleared up.

you will find you over anilise things at the start.

[kerrie and stan]

http://www.dogclub.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11869.420.html

its the last page and last post

[SuzAndTheDiva]

As long as you avoid the things he cant have he will do just fine. Honey does and shes allergic to way more than Stan - and we cope - 

[Lucyr]

I feed all my dogs on a raw meaty bones diet.  I don't give them vegetables after lots of research into it proving they can do more harm than good.

Tom Lonsdale's website (Raw Meaty Bones) is a good one to look on to get an idea of what to feed.  The Rottie's and Staffie will eat anything given to them whereas my Akita is more fussy - she won't touch rabbit and is only just starting to eat little bits of heart.