Need Some Help

[.dodger.]

I don't want to bother Bev at this point in time so thought i would post up here and see if anyone else would be able to offer some help.

Dodger's problems with people are now not a major issue, they barley even an issue when out and about but i'm still having great problems with him meeting other dogs.

I've been re-reading all of the sheets i got from Bev along with my 'how dogs learn' book to try and help but i just don't seem to be getting it. I think i'm to close to the problems to be able to fix them by myself so would really like to take a step back and have other peoples opinions out there for me to listen to.

I have in the heel close although it has become a little slack recently - something we have gone back to C1 to work at - but if we pass certain dogs dodger will pull to greet them. I normally do a leave and back in for a heal close which normally works well, although this just seems to make him more jumpy (almost like he's getting panicky because i'm delaying the greeting, he's trying to rush into the greeting progress)
The main issue is that he is greeting every dog in the assertive, challenging posture whether they are puppies, oldies, dog, bitch, entire, castrated, spayed ect

What i find is that if a dog is coming up to him (he's on lead) he will still walk nicely in a heel close but once the dog gets a lead length away he will charge up to it in this manner. If the dog rolls on to it's back he'll sniff around it with all his hackles up, if the dog is in the same posture as him he with start growling/grumbling and what the dog does next depends on how he reacts. I have the greet nice but now what this has done is it has got him standing waiting nicely but as soon as i say greet nice he'll do the charging behavior growling at the dog. It has just delayed his reaction but now it seems like i'm allowing it as maybe now he associates greet nice with this kind of greeting??

I know some people have/may say just keep him away from dogs all together and as long as he is under control on the lead and walking nicely with you there isn't a problem - but thats not what i want. I want him to stop greeting dogs this way so that at some point in the future he'll be able to be off lead at the park again - he doesn't have to like dogs he just hasn't got to bully them like he does. I need to continue modifying his behavior like i started with Bev instead of dropping back into the routine of just managing his behavior.
 

[.dodger.]

anyone

[Izzie]

Laura am going through some notes for you hon

Bare with me hon its been a loooong day today

[Olliethecollie]

Hi Laura
I too am back to managing! You are not alone. Sorry I can't be of any help x

[xtine]

not of any help, but Fritz goes thru phases of this.. he can be pretty full on in his greets (never aggressive just in yer face) and other times completely fine.. the last week or so I would say he has been 'fired up' not sure if that is to do with him being unwell, but we have kept him on a lead for most of his walks on the heath. Trouble is, he can be worse on a lead, can guarantee he will strain and shout. Not sure our 'leave it' is working.. that seems to fire him up too...

[*Lassie*]

These may help I know he's not aggressive just pushy but read what she says about the handlers body language
http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/33/97/

http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/32/70/

[xtine]

won't let us in Jacqui.. have to be a member 

[*Lassie*]

won't let us in Jacqui.. have to be a member 

Sign up membership is FREE

[xtine]

    

[rooooooooby]

hi,

he isnt "greeting nice" - i would go back to not allowing any greets until you have your heelwork brilliant again.  if he pulls out of heel to greet then put him back in a heel and carry on - it sounds like the "jumpyness" you are getting is him needing re-settling into the heelwork and moving on.

from what you say, you've been letting him greet everything and anything in challenging posture sounds like you are right about your greet nice cue - its extinguished or needs repairing badly.

why are you letting him charge up to other dogs ?  just walk on by Laura until you have control on your terms

from his point of view its no wonder he's charging at the dog if you have him sitting anticipating being able to lunge at it

i would think dodger takes confident but gentle management - maybe in slackening off your heelwork he's read that as a lack of confidence in his handler and is pushing - that then affects your emotions which then he sees he can push more perhaps ...?

if you have someone who can go out with you take out one of the others that you're confident with / you know doesnt have issues and get them to film you walking and then do same with dodger and see if there is a difference - lead tension ? shoulders ? eye-contact ... just thoughts really

I think you are doing great with Dodger and I am sure you will get through this you are SO close he's just a clever boy too !!  ..... darn these clever dogs

claire x

p.s. xtine, you need to work on your leaveit and shhhush i think

[xtine]

I know.. his leave it at home is hot.. we do it lots.. need to build it up to a higher criteria cause he sees it as " where is it.. where' the thing I'm supposed to leave...ooohoooohooohhhh   
back to the drawing board 

[rooooooooby]

yep - sounds like ur leaveit is more like a findit oops !!

[.dodger.]

hi,

he isnt "greeting nice" - i would go back to not allowing any greets until you have your heelwork brilliant again.  if he pulls out of heel to greet then put him back in a heel and carry on - it sounds like the "jumpyness" you are getting is him needing re-settling into the heelwork and moving on.

from what you say, you've been letting him greet everything and anything in challenging posture sounds like you are right about your greet nice cue - its extinguished or needs repairing badly.

why are you letting him charge up to other dogs ?  just walk on by Laura until you have control on your terms

I normally don't let him greet many dogs at all. I always have him in a heel close and we just carry on walking past the dogs, but it's when a dog is off lead and will come up towards him or if we know the owner and dog so stop for a chat.

from his point of view its no wonder he's charging at the dog if you have him sitting anticipating being able to lunge at it

We never do sitting while other dogs are passing now. If we are walking towards a dog and he breaks his heel close, i stop cue the heel close and he returns to my side for us to then carry on walking - he always rushed back to my side so that we can carry on walking towards the dog quicker. Maybe i should bring him back into a heel close and then change direction away from the dog??

i would think dodger takes confident but gentle management - maybe in slackening off your heelwork he's read that as a lack of confidence in his handler and is pushing - that then affects your emotions which then he sees he can push more perhaps ...?

if you have someone who can go out with you take out one of the others that you're confident with / you know doesnt have issues and get them to film you walking and then do same with dodger and see if there is a difference - lead tension ? shoulders ? eye-contact ... just thoughts really

Can't ever go out with anyone at all, even if they don't have a dog. Everything had been going great and then my dad took him out and on the same walk he almost got a hold of a dog and lunged for two people (one being a child) They have no control over him and to be honest their attitude towards him i don't want them to either. They are not the right people to be handling Dodger. It's also Dodger who is part of the problem. Put him in anyone elses hands and he doesn't listen to a thing they say or do. I know he had a really nice walk with Mandy where he listened but apart from that he just switched back to the old dodge.

I think you are doing great with Dodger and I am sure you will get through this you are SO close he's just a clever boy too !!  ..... darn these clever dogs

Thanks Claire I'm just really frustrated that we've gotten so far but we just seem to be stuck on this part right now. We are working on are leave it and heel close in the house but in a dream world i'd just like to stop him approaching dogs in that manner because 3 out of 4 times it will end in dodger lunging at the dog growling. Not sure if he would get his teeth into any of them unless the other dog did first but the growling and chasing is bad enough.
claire x

On a good note we sas his girlfriend Mya the GSD after not seeing her for a few months and he is still smitten. After coming out of her heat she has become very snappy with dogs and she also has a resource guarding problem so if a dog goes up to her she tends to lunge for them. She did it to dodger serveral times and instead of doing the usual 'attack' back he just lunged into a play bow and continued whining. He really is in love with her, had that been any other dog they would have been in a lot of trouble

Thanks Jacqui, will sign up and have a read of those

[Mudgie]

Laura

This is mostly about you.  Sorry hun but it is.  Remember the difference in Dodger when I had his lead and when you had his lead    Remember how him and nooch were walking and at one point even playing in the field 

Your shoulders are tense, you are upright, your fingers are clenched around the lead, your face is distraught.  You need to work on yourself and your body language and calming yourself - remember you are in charge - not in an aggressive punishing way - but he doesnt need to protect you - cos you are in charge    Will talk to you about it more next week in person. 

[rooooooooby]

Hi,

Laura - i didnt mean someone else take dodger, i meant someone come WITH YOU to film you + him, then the difference with you + another dog.

it would have hilighted what i suspected but mudgie has confirmed anyway - that its you who is feeding his reactive behaviour

am sure mudgie will sort you and you are right - you are almost there

like i said - confident but in a gentle manner - you KNOW all the theory you KNOW what to do, you just have to trust in yourself and put a little faith in your ability with dodger   i know you have what it takes - i would gladly bring my 2 to play with mister dodger and you if we lived closer

Claire x