choke chains

[farrokh]

  can some one tell why after all these years pet shops are still selling choke chains i for one would like to see them banned why would any body want to choke a dog i for one would like to make owners wear them and i will pull on it my farrokh used to pull hard so i put on a wide leather collar and when he pulled i stood still with in a week he cotton on pulling got him no where and i have seen head collars rubbing a dogs eyes so please bin choke chains and please be careful when using head collars if you don't want your dog to hurt you don't hurt him

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

because many many many trainers reccommend them

and sadly, not all dogs are able to learn not to pull in the way you describe

[kizkiznobite]

in order to work then the owner needs to understand the operant conditioning involved...sadly most do not...

[Val]

I would never dream of using one to walk a dog but I used one all the time in the showring
Val

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

is that not more to do with aesthetics than lack of training tho Val ??

show chains (generally) from what I have seen look very different to the pet shop choke chains

i've never seen a beautiful one like Kodi's in a pet shop ..?

claire x

[Val]

They are much finer than you can buy in a pet shop, but still not good in untrained hands most showdogs will run a ring and stack without any collar and lead on.
Think that showed put on the Crufts video the Americans can be very hard on chokes especially with the terriers, there is no way on earth you could handle a beardie like that
Val

is that not more to do with aesthetics than lack of training tho Val ??

show chains (generally) from what I have seen look very different to the pet shop choke chains

i've never seen a beautiful one like Kodi's in a pet shop ..?

claire x

[raindog]

Like Val, we use the very thin "check" chains in the showring, but not when walking our dogs. In fact we   
use 3 different types of collar, dependent upon the activity they are involved in. For normal walking, we use a webbing/chain half-check collar. With these collars on the dogs know they are expected to walk to heel. With the show-check, they respond to the most minute pressure and move accordingly. When we run them in harness, we use solid webbing collars or webbing half-checks. In these collars, they know that not only are they allowed to pull, they are expected to.



Mick

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

hi,

i think that show chain is what you'd technically call a choke chain and i think so is the webbing one.

the red one is a check collar

when ppl object to choke/checks is when they are used instead of bothering to train the dog to simply strangle them if they pull too much

i have got a lurcher collar for bonnie and a flat collar for william for normal walking but they also both have martingale collars (which are like a check collar but the "chain" part is the same fabric as the collar - i use them for a few different things - one is grooming so i can groom under the collar area, two is for showing as they look all special and nice, Jus will know they do occasionally get walked in them when i forget !!

i like walking them in them especially bonnie as they are escape-proof without being restrictive but you couldnt walk a dog which pulled in one it would be lunging here there and everywhere !!

claire x

[Justine&Rafe]

Yep Claire's collars are all pretty and patterned!! 

Used to walk Rafe in a choke, but it didn't work.  He pulled, AND choked. Or I was tugging every few secs.  I DO walk my boss's dog in a choke as she is such a good girl most of the time, no pulling at all, unless we see another dog when she will lunge and have you on the floor.  She stops smartish if she has the choke on.  And I won't walk her without it, nor do I have time to retrain another person's dog.

In the wrong hands they are not just unpleasant but totally useless.  But I think if that's the only method of control it's better to have control over your dog with a choke chain than risk it lunging across a road in front of a car and killing someone.

[kerrie and stan]

But I think if that's the only method of control it's better to have control over your dog with a choke chain than risk it lunging across a road in front of a car and killing someone.

it shouldnt be about control though, it should be about the training.

i have a half check collar for stan and it is the only collar that i will ever have, firstly because i like the look of it on stan and secondly because i only have to jingle the chain and he will fall back to my side if he has stepped in front

[Bilclarie]

There actually called check chains not choke chains and I have always used them to train a puppy to walk to heal, which is why as adults mine only need wear a normal collar when out on the lead, check chains if put on and used right are a good training aid.



Mo and the Gang

[kizkiznobite]

they used to be called choke chains ...but got 'renamed' by users to diffuse ...

they can do an enormous ammount of injury and damage and should never be used on a puppy...it just not necessary in MHO....they a punishment method...dog works to avoid the 'check' ...using one of these to stop pulling doesnt answer the 'why' the dog is pulling...understanding that is half the battle to teach without....but if the pup is taught heel before a leash is even attached then the battle doesnt even commence...very few people use them correctly...including many trainers..

what is happnening with the dog justine walks is that she has learnt to go through the pain barrier as the lunge is more rewarding than the slacking off

i teach the location off leash at 8/9 weeks then add the leash ...by that time the leash is just a human accessory...took me minutes with cubert as in his thread and is successful as a remod exercise for those that have had pulling re-enforced...

[Val]

I would never put a choke chain on a pup not even in the showring I use a half check by the time they are old enough to show they know how to walk with me anyway.
They get in the showring as youngster and can get caught up in the moment all the excitement etc
so always a half check for me and my pooches until they are used to the showing then I change them to a check chain
I never walk or train on one always a leather collar and lead
Val

There actually called check chains not choke chains and I have always used them to train a puppy to walk to heal, which is why as adults mine only need wear a normal collar when out on the lead, check chains if put on and used right are a good training aid.



Mo and the Gang

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

so a check chain and choke chain are the same thing ??

i dont want to offend anyone - i just interested to know OK so please dont anyone get all cross - but if a dog reacts to the chain jingle hasnt it at some point been conditioned to avoid (as in yanked and punished) ?

Claire x

[Val]

Yes they are the same thing choke check

Hi,

so a check chain and choke chain are the same thing ??

i dont want to offend anyone - i just interested to know OK so please dont anyone get all cross - but if a dog reacts to the chain jingle hasnt it at some point been conditioned to avoid (as in yanked and punished) ?

Claire x