If this is the Youth of today then goD help us

[Misty23]

Awful, what happened to knowing basic right from wrong at a very young age you know that to cause hurt is wrong, I can't understand what was going through her mind when she was doing this sickening act

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

With respect, the doctrine of original sin as an understanding of human children is fundamentally flawed and has been largely abandoned.  It is exactly the kind of "people like these" attitude which is behind the dominant biomedical understanding of psychological distress which is serving to create a society which just abdicates responsibility, incarcerates and systematically abuses people.

And that means in English?

Dito  suspious ....

it means ... society today is screwed - it will produce screwed children, many of whom will go on to have (possibly unwanted) screwed children and that society as a whole does not seem to take responsibility for this, but instead group them all as the "scum of today" and eventually in one way or another they are trapped and locked away to protect the majority from thinking there is anything wrong with society ...

in practical terms ...

YES this child should be punished - she has done wrong and needs to understand actions have consequences, bad actions have bad consequences.

but also - she needs to be understood in terms of society otherwise the punishment will (most probably) become a "prize" to brag about and off we go again ... society rejects her because what she has done is a disgrace and there begins the spiral into either prison or psychiatric care to hit back against those who reject her and punish them ... (not saying this WILL happen to this girl but just in general this is an example of the type of outcome for child abusers).

final thought - maybe she is being abused herself and being kept in secrecy by fear or so-called trusted adults have let her down so she has not seen her abusers punished and this is how she copes - it is common for abused children (or those who regularly witness violent abuse) to act out.

[*Lassie*]

it means ... society today is screwed - it will produce screwed children, many of whom will go on to have (possibly unwanted) screwed children and that society as a whole does not seem to take responsibility for this, but instead group them all as the "scum of today" and eventually in one way or another they are trapped and locked away to protect the majority from thinking there is anything wrong with society ...

What do you mean by take responsibility. Years ago when you got caught as a kid doing something you weren't suppose to do, any adult who saw you would tell you off or tell your Mum, they may even give you a clip round the ear.
If you dare to challenge the kids today at best you get a mouthful of abuse from the kid or the parents will turn up on your doorstep and threaten you.
So we as a society are not allowed to do anything about the feral youth roaming our streets unless you can come up with some workable ideas. 

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

i agree !!

i didnt quite mean in that immediate / practical way (which would definately be much too dangerous i agree)

i mean responsibility as a bigger thing - e.g. the way government and european policy impact on things like benefits, taxes, unemployment etc ....

claire x

[*Lassie*]

Benefits, taxes, unemployment have no bearing on the ability of parents to teach right from wrong. During and after WW2 most kids grew up without a Dad and wearing hand me down clothes, toys were a hard to get luxury but they still learnt to respect people in authority and their family. Yes you get a few bad ones but it was safer to walk the streets.
Now you have children having babies and parents unable to say the word NO  - the world is obsessed with children's rights and marriage is the exception rather than the norm.
Without the family and discipline things won't get any better   

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

This is the topic of another of my essays - the "nuclear family" and its strengths and weaknesses and my goodness I was shocked to find just how wrong things can go there !!

The three things I listed were just the first examples that came to mind and they most definately do have a bearing on parenting.

Again off the top of my head -

benefits - the whole "get pregnant, get a house" interpretation of policies for single mothers meaning that young girls were getting themselves pregnant to get away from "family life"

taxes - revenue has a direct effect on things like education and healthcare, other financial/economic burdens e.g. interest rates are also linked to taxes but in their own right can also lead to extreme stress, family breakup etc ... (just a an example - think of the 15% rate just before the 1980's crash, and also the very low rates and recession now, resulting in unemployment for millions - see below)

unemployment - resulting stress as a contributing factor to being labelled and "treated" for one of many different mental illnesses that would impact on parenting ability.  this is now done "in the community" rather than in psychiatric hospitals but whether this is any better i wouldnt like to say as the model behind both is essentially damaging.

on top of this we have increasingly common marginalised sections of society who are already understood by the majority as "wrong" historically (and some might argue still are) such as homosexuality, ethnic minorities etc ..

re your comments -

hand me down clothes - my little boy is very proud of his that we get from another little lad and cant wait to grow into his old things   and all of Harry's clothes (first hand or otherwise) have all been passed down to a number of other boys some of whom I know have passed them down again!   However, I get your point as OH had "hand me downs" from his big bro and I used to get hand made clothes from my mum.  It doesnt happen as much because society is more "disposable" and people want new and because of the dreaded *consumer credit* they can just pop out and get it whenever they like.  Both my partner and I are from the "saving up and ye shall have" school of economics and are proud to say neither of us have debt (except mortgages, neither of which are excessive and both of which are easily covered by our arrangements) despite the fact we both had brand new cars in 2008 and a lovely new conservatory a year or two earlier.

dreaded consumer credit is another social evil - anyone who is deeply in debt will tell you how stressful it is and that it does impact on your whole life.  it has also served to create the "now now now me me me" little b*ggers who all have the latest everything.  this pushes other parents to do the same for their kids regardless of their financial situation to stop their kids being bullied.  this hardly teaches values yet the education policies still support it even in schools where uniform is compulsary as theres no respect or punishment for non adherence

these are just the things i can think of at the moment, there are many more examples ...

[kerrie and stan]

i cant even comment on the video but i was in tears befor the end of it

[Diesel73]

Benefits, taxes, unemployment have no bearing on the ability of parents to teach right from wrong.

I'm with you Las, but can see it no different in the UK than in Belgium  . If it is something i hate than it is making up excuses and blaming everyone else for personal faluire.
If household runs out of control, blame the governement.... What a load of bs in a package with a big bow .
It still no excuse Clair. I'm with you on 3/4 of what you are saying, but i find society is not the problem, the individual persons are. As f.cked up as your parents are, and might screw you up..... you still KNOW what's wrong or right when it comes to abuse of any kind. You still KNOW when you crossed the line. (Even if one won't admit it out load, you still know deep down inside. whether one care's for it is another matter.)