Hi

[BenC]

Hi newbie here, my name is Ben and im the proud owner of a 4yr old border collie cross lab.

Im looking for some help. My dog, Jess, is a rescue dog from Dogs Trust in Leeds, she doesnt have the best attitude ive seen on dogs and I would like to know if someone in the area could help.

When we got Jess 2 years ago Dogs Trust said we would never be able to have her around alot of people and other animals as she is very agressive towards everything. Since then we have trained her and she isnt too bad around people, she still barks at the odd person when we are out but its nothing I cant control, however when we see other dogs if they get too close she will attack them.

What I have been told is the best way to deal with this behaviour is to socialise her with a goup of other dogs, I think this is a good idea but I have no idea how to go about it or where to go? I cant take her to a park incase a dog approaches her and shes attacks it what I need is a controlled enviroment.

Can anyone suggest anywhere or anything to help me along?

Thanks
Ben

[kerrie and stan]

hi and welcome

Bev (kizkiznobite) will be able to help you with your girl
first she will need to know a few thigs:
what do you say/ do when she goes to attack?
what do you say/ do when she barks?
what do you feed Jess?
what do treats do you use for training?
how long have you had her?


would love to see some pictures of Jess

[*Nat*]

Hi and welcome  This is my second attempt at posting a reply  Bl**dy board elf at it again 

Yes basically I said the same thing, Kiz will be able to help you, sounds like the sooner the better 

[BenC]

hi and welcome

Bev (kizkiznobite) will be able to help you with your girl
first she will need to know a few thigs:
what do you say/ do when she goes to attack?
what do you say/ do when she barks?
what do you feed Jess?
what do treats do you use for training?
how long have you had her?


would love to see some pictures of Jess

Hi thanks for the welcome

what do you say/ do when she goes to attack?
Most of the time, if I catch her before she gets in the 'zone', I can shout no and come and she comes to me. On the odd occasion she doesnt listen I have to chase her, whilst shouting, and then get the lead on her before she does any damage.
what do you say/ do when she barks?
Barking isnt so bad, again its a simple no and shes usually ok on the odd occasion where shes barking looking outside the window and she doesnt stop I remove her from the room and put her in the hallway for 10 minutes.
what do you feed Jess?
She is fed on dry biscuits and a tin of meet per day.
what do treats do you use for training?
Her treat is her ball she plays with it all the time where ever we go, she has no interest in food when we are out playing.
how long have you had her?
I have had her since Nov 2007

I know she sounds like a bad dog but when we are on our own with people she knows and even with my parents male Akita shes the best dog in the world, shes very intelligent, very playful and responds well to commands.

Here are a few photos
Jess:


Jess and Max

[Sweetypye]

Kay laurence has a very good programme with dogs of this nature, look at her Learning about Dogs site.

Counter conditioning and desensitisation needs to be conducted by a properly experienced person after observation of your dog and you and others.  There are a lot of people who THINK they know how this should be approached but many who cannot walk the walk.

You sound as though you have made great strides already.

I would be interested in your interpretation of "attack" as you say when dogs get too close to her which sounds to me as though she is in defence mode; rather than her actually approaching other dogs to attack.

The latter is of course easily managed by proper control, unfortunately it is much harder to control OTHER dogs.

[kerrie and stan]

she is very pretty love the one with the pup aswell, very cute

what do you say/ do when she goes to attack?
Most of the time, if I catch her before she gets in the 'zone', I can shout no and come and she comes to me. On the odd occasion she doesnt listen I have to chase her, whilst shouting, and then get the lead on her before she does any damage.

can i ask exactly what she does? does she activly go after another dog, as in will race accross a field to get at them? has she actually bitten or caused damage to another dog or person?

what do you say/ do when she barks?
Barking isnt so bad, again its a simple no and shes usually ok on the odd occasion where shes barking looking outside the window and she doesnt stop I remove her from the room and put her in the hallway for 10 minutes.

why in the halway for 10 minuets?


what do treats do you use for training?
Her treat is her ball she plays with it all the time where ever we go, she has no interest in food when we are out playing.

ok but do you do any training with her? as in sit, down, come, away ect and what do you use as a reward for her?


sorry for all the questions but it will give Bev a clear picture, also im being nosy

[carlos33]

Hi and welcome 

[Mudgie]

Think you need a visit from Bev 

Its very difficult on board to get true picture of what is happening.  Body language is so subtle in dogs, calming signals can be misinterpreted as something else.

If dog is barking then why punish it? Find out why she is barking rather than punishing it by excluding her.  That will teach her nothing.

Reward the good ignore the bad (and manage the rest!!! until she is sufficiently trained  )

Look on all the stuff in basic training - it is a good starting place and will reinforce your relationship.

[BenC]

she is very pretty love the one with the pup aswell, very cute

what do you say/ do when she goes to attack?
Most of the time, if I catch her before she gets in the 'zone', I can shout no and come and she comes to me. On the odd occasion she doesnt listen I have to chase her, whilst shouting, and then get the lead on her before she does any damage.

can i ask exactly what she does? does she activly go after another dog, as in will race accross a field to get at them? has she actually bitten or caused damage to another dog or person?

what do you say/ do when she barks?
Barking isnt so bad, again its a simple no and shes usually ok on the odd occasion where shes barking looking outside the window and she doesnt stop I remove her from the room and put her in the hallway for 10 minutes.

why in the halway for 10 minuets?


what do treats do you use for training?
Her treat is her ball she plays with it all the time where ever we go, she has no interest in food when we are out playing.

ok but do you do any training with her? as in sit, down, come, away ect and what do you use as a reward for her?


sorry for all the questions but it will give Bev a clear picture, also im being nosy

When we are out if a dog gets in around 12-15 foot then she see's it as some sort of threat and runs for it, the result is she tries to roll it and gets agressive but by that time im usually there to split it up. She has never done any real damage to another dog or person she is just very intimidating.
I think, the way she barks at people, that its more a defensive thing. When we get new people in the house she'll bark alot with the hairs on her back going up but she wont approach the person. Once the visitor has settled in the house for 5-10 minutes shes usually ok or failing that we get whoever it is to throw the ball and interact with her then she'll be ok.

I was told that if she barks and doesnt respond to my commands to remove her from the situation and then wait till shes out of the moment, if that makes sense? Is this not the best way to deal with it?
On the other hand if she listens to me I praise her, stroke her or throw her ball as a reward.

She can sit, lay down, stay and come all by using hand commands I dont need to say anything she is very very clever and she picks up on new things very quickly.

I dont mind all the questions I could do with any advice and I understand you need to know as much as you can to get the big picture

[Val]

Hallo and Welcome

[kerrie and stan]

does she know the the 'Leave' command?

I dont think that removing her from the situation will resolve the matter, i think it might be best to use a leave command if she knows it or hush/ quiet cue.

im not an expert and im sure Bev will be online shortly and she will be able to help

[kizkiznobite]

hi and welcome....

well hun..you sure must like a challange  

your girlie is in many ways a classic and common cross...it also one of the crosses that often end up in rescue...what i say to my clients is look at the breed...look and understand what the dog was bred for...and that will let you into the mind...what you have is a lass made up of 2 high drive breeds...at the opposing ends of the spectrum...a calm focussed hunter and a problem solving herder/guarder....they are so often sadly mis-understood....i think i know exactly what your lass is doing...she is guarding her resource whilst wanting to round up and hunt it...she a confused wee lassie me thinks ...and sure she bright...she will be in the top ten of bright...but...she needs direction and she needs learnt cues and she need counter conditioning on the self learnt rewards and behaviours she has gotten to date...isolation wont work with her...exclusion wont work with her...she aint daft..she will suss all that out in seconds....and if the pack manager barks when i bark ...he sure does need me to help him  

given time and correct management they are one of the best crosses....please stop telling her no...she needs to learn what to do instead...

so lets start at the start

read general levels of criteria in the sticky area

then tell me what you got at each criteria

so sit at 5 fluent and reliable
down at 3 fluent and reliable 10/10 but in the field with a dog about 2/10

ok?
happy to help....more info the better

[BenC]

Hi, that makes so much sense. When we are out if someone runs or a dog runs in the distance she always pays attention and when people get close if they move quickly shes more likey to take more notice of them.

I'll have a read of the stickys and let you know what I think, thanks for your advice

Ben

[kizkiznobite]

u welcome

had a hard day  ...am off to bed ...will be on in the morning....

[BenC]

Morning, where do I find the sticky threads which forum are they in......I cant seem to find them