dog v children

[griffgrogg]

Hi all

I have a boisterous but non-agressive Viszla dog who is 15 months old.   He is well behaved towards me and my hubbie but asserts his authority with my children who are 8, 11 and 13.    He jumps up at them, doesnt do as he told by them and particularly with my 8 year is quite rough with him.He also mouths their hands and arms when rough housing....................the children bring this on themselves alot of the time but I would like some advice on how to teach the children to deal with him.

Archie also gets so excited with visitors, particularly children, he jumps and mouths alot......he is quite a big dog (inches taller than the breed standard) and very strong so I need to train him/others on how to stop this undersirable behaviour

many thanks   Terri     

[kizkiznobite]

hi and welcome

he is not asserting his authiority  he views them as he would his siblings that he played and rough housed with in the nest....
you need to teach him better manners with reliable and consistent cues...esp door manners and the mouthing ...and the children need to understand how dogs communicate and how they are re-enforcing these behaviours....

what training and socialising have you done to date...did he go to puppy classes for example

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi Terri,

I do not post on here much but I felt compelled to reply to this because I am so shocked about what is going on in your house   Anyone here who knows me will know that I have a reasonably relaxed mothering style but I have to say that my (now 3 1/2) year old little boy has never behaved like this towards any dog full stop and i've found it a little upsetting to read this post.  I would be totally mortified if he incited a dog into jumping on him and biting at him and for the most part, our dogs obey him already with many simple cues and will sit or lie down, go away, go in their bed, not pinch his food when he tells them not to and also certainly in one case do a very fair walk to heel.  I take on board that they are much smaller than your dog but they're probably a similar ratio to your dogs/kids and they are also both rescue dogs neither of which had really been around children before and certainly not in an organised / positive way.  I have also had a number of foster dogs which were particularly tricky and my son was able to pick up and apply new rules for these new dogs easily and I managed the interaction where I needed to until the new dogs learned he was a "master" also and not a "sibling".

The children do not "bring it on themselves" - It is YOU who allows your children to act this way with the dog which will have really ingrained this behaviour, it is also YOU who has allowed the dog to continue doing so for over a year now. 

IMO ....

I would provide the children with a positive set of "dog rules" - if they follow these then reward their behaviour, if they break them with what you feel is something minor / accidental / out of general character for that child then i would ignore it and distract the child(ren) away from the dog.  At the next opportunity show them you are following the rules too and make it clear this is the behaviour you expect from them too.  If they deliberately / majorly break these rules (incite the dog to jump up or bite) then I would perhaps give them 1 firm warning and on the next occasion think about denying them something they would otherwise earn (e.g. if they all have weekly pocket money then they only get this if they have followed dog rules all week without major issues, as things move on i would tighten this up to mean everything except the most accidental or unusual behaviour from them).

At the moment, you are also going to have the dog thinking it can incite the children so you will have to watch them at all times when they are in contact with the dog to police this (this is essential).  You can teach the dog in much the same way as the children.  If the dog shows the behaviour you want praise him gently (so as not to incite him), if he's a little naughty but not too awful then ignore and distract - try and do this before he gets focussed on the child(ren) and if its a major bad jumping/biting and the child is trying with the new rules you need to step in and seperate the dog and child because ultimately you are the "boss" here.

To help and support your children through this you need to obey the same rules and also teach them how to respond when it looks like he's starting - try not to make eye contact, turn away, no talking and arms crossed infront of chest or hands by sides with palms against their legs.  You can then intervene with your distraction too and the situation will de-escalate.

This will all happen alot faster if you get to grips with the basics of behavioural conditioning, learn about how your dog communicates and also use clicker training to reward the dog.

The door greeting is easier, you need to make visitors aware of the "dog rules" and also work on your dogs general training so you can do something like put him somewhere and him stop there while you let people in the door and then slowly and calmly say hello

The exact little "ins and outs" of all this are quite alot to explain/take on in one go so I would suggest with the dog training you read some general posts here and get your rules underway and come back with Q's

Claire.

p.s. if you are thinking of using a trainer / behaviourist please be very careful as *some* trainers can result in a dog which is very unpredictable and even more difficult to control.  There are some reccommendations on here on what to avoid and what to look for

[Diesel73]

I do not post on here much but I felt compelled to reply to this because I am so shocked about what is going on in your house

Thàt's a ittybitty harsh Claire, they are not beating him up with a stick or something like that. Kids are a little harder to control when they get older. God knows what awaits us when they grow in their teens .... Wild kids create wild dogs. Put my Dies and my son in the same room, just turn your back on them and we got nitroglycerine in my house too  . They just all need to know how far they can go, what's goodygoody and what's a BIG nono.
My son tought Diesman and Wook how to drag a toddler by the diper  .
Now Diesel has tought himself the art of tug of war games by using my son's tshirt without hurting the boy in any way . That's a nono  .
But not a BIG nono. That title is reserved for everything than can realy hurt the dogs OR kids.
I don't mind rough games, and i probably play rougher than most folks would BUT.... it should never ever get out of hand. You just got to know when you got to stop befor you go to far. With kids it just takes longer for them to find out where that border is. And it is up to the parents to teach them that  .
Griffgrogg just got her view about what the dog's doing a little wrong, but atleast she sees there needs to be something done befor it get's out of control. Usually folks wait till sh0t hit's the fan.

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

I am sorry you feel that way Diesel but it is the truth - I dont post here much as I am really busy studying at the moment ... and I was genuinely really shocked.

So they're not beating him .... it doesnt mean I cant be shocked that they let their kids behave like this.

Claire.

[Diesel73]

Hi,

I am sorry you feel that way Diesel but it is the truth - I dont post here much as I am really busy studying at the moment ... and I was genuinely really shocked.

So they're not beating him .... it doesnt mean I cant be shocked that they let their kids behave like this.

Claire.

Claire..... what i value most when people ask for advice is 1 are they willing to take advice at all and 2 (maybe even more important to me) do they have bad intentience. If one makes mistakes but intentiences were well meant, than there is no need to beat that person up.

You can tell the truth, you can tell it in a straight way, but being straight in words or downright insulting are 2 different things.
Yes Clair, you did, you were insulting her by pointing your finger and shouting 'YOU this' and 'YOU that'. She was looking for advice but all that came out of it now was that she scared away. She was reaching out and didn't realize she was doing it wrong.....
Did you yourself scare her away, or did she just stay away? Well, we'll never know unless she replies herself, so i am not going to say you are the reason. Do not think that is what i am thinking or accusing you of.

Don't get me wrong Clair, i like straightforward people, as i am not knows as 'mister-wise-in-choosing-his-words' myself. And yes, you can accuse myselfy of being rude too and be right about that many times too. But there is a line between straightforward, rude ànd insulting.
And i can even understand one can take it out on the wrong people if one is under stress. Yes, even that you can accuse myselfy of too. But.... it does not make me being right 

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

The emphasis on YOU is not shouting or insulting - it is in capitals to highlight the point that it is not their childrens or the dogs fault as they seem to imply but theirs for allowing it to happen.  This is obvious from the sentance construction which is clearly contrasting different viewpoints.

They asked for advice on how to teach their children to "deal with him" ... if they do not grasp their fundamental mistake that it is not the childs or the dogs fault - how will they apply the advice which follows?

As for you implying that I caused them not to come back (regardless of whether you are thinking or accusing - you are implying it) I seriously doubt that - when people get to this stage they are in grabbing at straws mode, I expect one of 3 things are much more likely 1. they got a trainer, 2. they got rid of the dog or 3. they got advice from other places first.

Why do I think this ... ?  Simple ... they had nearly a month to reply to Kiz post which went up the same day and didnt bother. 

Claire.

[Diesel73]

Clair... you are not listening again, cause.......

As for you implying that I caused them not to come back (regardless of whether you are thinking or accusing - you are implying it)

Thàt said it all for me.

Do with my words what you please. I'm not upset or anything like that at all. But one thing i do not agree with and that is that putting caps on is in cyberspace 'shouting'  .

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

I'm listening perfectly thanks and happy 'agree to disagree' ...

capitals do not nessesarily mean shouting - they just put emphasis on the word e.g.

GRRRRR - I CANT STAND PPL WHO WALK DOGS AND TALK ON THE PHONE !!!!!!!!!  (would very obviously be shouting / frustrated)

whereas ...

and i got half way across the field and really NEEDED the toilet (would be very obviously emphasis).

cyberspace is constantly evolving and the 'caps is shouting' thing has evolved with it .... if you spoke the original sentances I wrote you wouldnt shout the word YOU at the person, it would be an emphasis !!

Claire.

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

Just incase anyone should think I am making it up as I go along ........ I have just been and found some references ......

All caps is usually used for emphasis. It is commonly seen in the titles on book covers, advertising, billboards, and in dramatic newspaper headlines. Short strings of words in all caps appear bolder and "louder" than mixed case

Which I think is near enough exactly what I said.

here's another example ... notice it refers to 'messages written all in capitals'

messages written in all capital letters are reminiscent of trying to hold a conversation in which one person is shouting every word while others are speaking at a normal volume.

and another ...

Capital letters are best left for their intended usage and, sparingly, to emphasize a particular word or phrase.

You are of course welcome to your own opinion about me but I would respectfully suggest that you do not try to bad mouth me by using justifications that dont exist.

Claire.

[*Lassie*]

You are of course welcome to your own opinion about me but I would respectfully suggest that you do not try to bad mouth me by using justifications that dont exist.

Claire all Diesel did was disagree with the way you approached the subject, he has not bad mouthed you. You have only been back a short while so please don't kick off and cause bad feeling as we can't afford to lose any more members. 
Instead how about an update on Bonnie, Wills and your little lad

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

Lassie - have you actually read this thread ?? 

there is no need to beat that person up

you were insulting her by pointing your finger and shouting 'YOU this' and 'YOU that'. She was looking for advice but all that came out of it now was that she scared away. She was reaching out and didn't realize she was doing it wrong.....
Did you yourself scare her away, or did she just stay away

but one thing i do not agree with and that is that putting caps on is in cyberspace 'shouting'

Lets look at the facts here a moment ...

1. one word of caps in cyberspace is EMPHASIS on that word and not shouting.  I have already supported this with several examples from other websites

2. he does imply that it was my post which 'scared' them away.  rubbish - they had bev's post to reply to the same day and another 3-4 weeks before I even posted in which to reply.

If I am continually expected to justify my behaviour in this way - YES I will quite rightly get stroppy - the whole point is that my original reply was actually everything the OP asked for, was not shouting and did not 'scare' them away.

NO WONDER that so many people stay away from here if they are treated in this way.

Claire.

[Diesel73]

Oowkayyy..... Claire   , Lassie saw me right on this one. I knew this was coming, i knew it   . I hoped you would read my words right, even pointed them out to you, but nope, once again you chose to read what you want to. Misinterpretation can happen to the best of us though, so i point it out again. This from me takes an effort as i am not a person that is easily goes REPETING himself and beliefe that once said is enough for everyone as one of my motto's is 'once for the hearing, twice for the deaf, third time needs payment.'

But ok here it is.....(my own words)

Did you yourself scare her away, or did she just stay away? Well, we'll never know unless she replies herself, so i am not going to say you are the reason. DO NOT THINK THAT IS WHAT I AM THINKING OR ACCUSING YOU OF........Don't get me wrong Clair, i like straightforward people, as i am not knows as 'mister-wise-in-choosing-his-words' myself. And yes, you can accuse myselfy of being rude too and be right about that many times too. But there is a line between straightforward, rude ànd insulting.
And i can even understand one can take it out on the wrong people if one is under stress. Yes, even that you can accuse myselfy of too. But....it does not make me being right  

Am not the person to say 'sorry clair but...' as i do not use the word 'sorry' unless i mean it. I use words like 'don't get me wrong' If you were looking for that 'sorry' than you are barking up the wrong tree.

If I am continually expected to justify my behaviour in this way - YES I will quite rightly get stroppy

I not can find the word 'stroppy'. I not know what it means. But if you 'constantly need to justify your behaviour'... that doesn't raise a question to you?

the whole point is that my original reply was actually everything the OP asked for, was not shouting and did not 'scare' them away.

............. Am finding it harder and harder to repeat myself here   , but whatever......

Well, we'll never know unless she replies herself, so I AM NOT GOING TO SAY YOU ARE THE REASON. Do not think that is what i am thinking or accusing you of.

There it was again *sigh*.

2. he does imply that it was my post which 'scared' them away.

If i was paranoid i would think you are trying to scare ME away   ...... Good thing that i am NOT.


Now..... i could start a pissingcontest as i KNOW you WILL respond if i provoce you and say stuff  to you like 'you want to leave than goodbye' or 'you are always insulting' and loads of other things i could use to drag your words out of context.... but i'm not going to.
You used the 'capital thing and new cyberstuff on other website'-thing against me. One can bold the words or intaliczise or underline them.  I find that more polite. And yes initialy at the beginning of my post i was feeling annoyed. But now, at the end of my post i don't care anymore. You (and yes this is what i think about you Claire), you want to be straitforward with others but can not handle a rebounce. Well that's to bad than....

And thàt was my final word on this.

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

Hi,

1. It is extremely unlikely that I 'scared' the OP away, they had 3-4 weeks to reply before I even posted.

2. Single word CAPS is not and as far as I know has not ever meant 'shouting' - I have already provided evidence of this.

You might think that your 'caveats' make what you have written acceptable / palletable or whatever.  Of course they do not !!  People dont write rhetorical questions such as ....

Did you yourself scare her away

if they have not thought it !! 

I'm not interested in an apology, only in putting people right about your incorrect assumptions / statements etc ... regarding my post here. 

Claire.

p.s. Stroppy - is what you get if you make a load of assumptions about my post that are incorrect and then try and cut me down with what is actually a load of ..............

[*Lassie*]

Yes Claire I did read the thread


Diesel stroppy is Claire's normal attitude to anyone who dares question her or disagree with her

Stroppy - Easily offended or annoyed; ill-tempered or belligerent.