Author Topic: STOP!!!!  (Read 31019 times)

kizkiznobite

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STOP!!!!
« on: March 20, 2006, 04:02:50 PM »
getting a dog to stop on cue is pretty hard - especially if it is an older dog that has had success at running away, hunting etc but it is almost as important, and in some instances more so, than a recall.

there are a couple of simple rules -
1) you do not have to have a verbal cue for this - a whistle is what you need - if you start to use a verbal cue then being human you will program yourself to use it - everytime - and believe me when push comes to shove - about to run over the road for example - then the stress in your voice will alter the cue delivery whereas a whistle will be more consistent.  we start with training it on a visual cue but out in the field this is only of use if the dog is looking at you (as if? when he got a scent or seen another dog ::)) - so move it on to a whistle at the lowest criteria and early in the training.  (for newbies look under criteria for an explanation and the whistle we use is a 2 10 1/2 gundog whistle or a 2 11 1/2 faloners whistle)

2) this is heavy learning and the dog must be well motivated for each session and will need high quality rewards

3) your clicker (or other bridge) delivery has got to be red hot and very very exact so don't try this if you have not managed to get a couple of other behaviours on cue with the clicker.

so here goes - clicker and treats in left hand - right hand for the cue:

you need space like the hallway or a corridor or a long room, a wall at the end will help for throwing the treats at ;D

throw out a treat to the wall let the dog pick it up and when s/he turns to come back have the next treat between the thumb and the middle finger of the right hand so as s/he comes back on the move towards you very quickly raise the hand high in the air with the first finger pointing straight up high above your head and slightly forward of your body - this is the visual stop cue - the raising and the 'stopping' of the forward finger motion - go to throw the treat like a dart player taking aim moving the body slightly forward from the waist at the same time - the dog will stop (dont release the treat on that first movement forward but on the second this gives you a split second to make sure the dog has stopped) and click if s/he does realeasing the treat over the dogs head to the wall and repeat.  got it? ;D

you are clicking/marking that stop - it does not matter if the dog lies down or sits - mine have to stand as they gundogs and i dont want them sitting or lying at that stage but for the average pet dog the most important thing is the stop.

when it is fluent and reliable without hesitation then add the whistle cue - remember it is always new cue old cue so 1 long loud blast as you do that first dart player action.

loads of practice and eventually you will be able to just use the whistle.

when you can use this fluently it is important to realise that this is an emergency interim cue and must be followed by something else either a sit, stay, down, recall, go left go right etc.  if your dog is not whistle focused or not yet fully cued to a whistle then make the follow up cue a verbal or visual one - it takes an experienced dog to act on and an experienced person to be able to blow a stop, then blow a sit, then blow a recall or a go left go right.  many many a dog's life has been saved by having stop on cue. so go for it - any q's please ask - don't struggle with this one - it is not easy to put this training into words so if you don't understand the principle or the technique say so ;D

« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 04:48:03 PM by kizkiznobite »

parker

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2006, 04:30:33 PM »
Thanks Kiz,

My husband walked in when I was trying out the hand positions when reading this and he looked like I had lost the plot :D
I totally understand this. Is it too soon to start for Molly?  I just can't wait!  and would liver be the high reward treat or is there an even higher one?

kizkiznobite

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2006, 04:45:04 PM »
 ;D ;D

it is never too soon to start the stop - on a par with the recall it is the most likely behaviour to breakdown and the training has to be re-enforced through-out life.  i start mine off at 16 weeeks when they have the basic sit, down, stay etc fluent to 70% and the recall to 75% - i don't take it outside until the recall and sit/stay is really fluent so it is one of those that is on going through out the whole training period.  gun dogs and herders need it not just for emergency but to get them to stop long enough to see/hear a change in direction cue.  it always fascinates me that people don't consider this as important as a recall and it is rarely taught in the training clubs but whenyou got a really high driven dog like gunner for instance, then it is a life saver - the other week gunner and his mum were walking along the footpath by the railway line just as she realised that there was a hole in the fence gunner flushed a bird - the stop possibly saved his life one of many examples of dog's needing this cue that i know of.

parker

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2006, 05:07:40 PM »
Just had a little go and she seems interested and I seem to get the click just right, so hopefully we can tackle this one ;)

kizkiznobite

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 05:13:59 PM »
this is a long hard one - so 5 mins at a time is enough, but good for you to start right the way ;D

baby b

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2006, 01:50:51 AM »
Brilliant, will be starting this one ASAP. I've been wondering how to do it for a while but was scared to experiment in case I got it wrong. I'm so glad I joined this board. Thank you so much Kiz for all the help you give us lot. Your a star.



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kizkiznobite

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2006, 01:09:44 PM »
 ;D u welcome :-*

poodle

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2006, 11:11:04 PM »
i have been trying to teach emergency stop/sit for some time.  firsly i make him sit and wait, then call him and try to make him stop at distance.  he can do it in the house, but when we try it during the walk, he changes his pace from run to walk, but he continues to walk quite a bit before he stops ans sits.  how can i improve his performance? 

parker

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2006, 12:09:11 AM »
This just reminded me, last summer while walking over the forest with Trixie (well i was woddling because preggers) We walked across a field next to some railway lines which were fenced off and next to them is a fallen down tree which you can sit on. Attached to it was a laminate letter telling the story of how a beautiful doggie chased a squirral through a gap in the fence and onto the railway lines. It was so sad to read. This cue is really really important and I have been doing short sessions with both of mine. :)

Lisa33

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2006, 12:09:53 PM »
Is calling DOWN the same thing? When I want mine to stop where they are I call Down and they stay where they are until I go up to them to praise or put them on the lead.  :)

kizkiznobite

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2006, 01:53:01 PM »
i have been trying to teach emergency stop/sit for some time.  firsly i make him sit and wait, then call him and try to make him stop at distance.  he can do it in the house, but when we try it during the walk, he changes his pace from run to walk, but he continues to walk quite a bit before he stops ans sits.  how can i improve his performance? 

this is classic - so let me try and explain, bearing in mind that i have been trying to catch up all day and the arthritis in my fingers having been around wet dogs for a week is being a bugger ;D

each behaviour is individual  - that is why the clicker works so well because we now understand this, the traditional training methods move things on from a humans point of view but not from a canines point of view.
so;
sit - 1 behaviour, wait - another, recall another, stop another, sit another etc etc  - at what point are you rewarding him and for which behaviour, from his point of view, is the reward for?.  what you have to do is get each behaviour firm, fluent and reliable at each stage and at each criteria - then and only then can you chain them up - teach the stop the way i have said - that way you are only working on the one behaviour and it is that that is being rewarded - when it is fluent at that level then test it by doing a recall (assuming you have a fluent recall) and introducing the stop when the dog is on the run. you don't say what your cue is - but all you need for a good stop is a whistle as explained above.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 03:03:38 PM by kizkiznobite »

kizkiznobite

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2006, 03:02:56 PM »
Is calling DOWN the same thing? When I want mine to stop where they are I call Down and they stay where they are until I go up to them to praise or put them on the lead.  :)

thats fine as long as they can hear you -- i would put it on whistle too - new cue old cue is the rule - so it is blow then yell down until they have transfered it over - don't worry - you wont lose the verbal as long as you re-enforce both periodically.

parker

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2006, 04:25:53 PM »
Molly is doing well with the stop, we are taking it slow though as not to rush things. In the meantime I am getting recall and down on whistle cue. Is three blasts for recall ok and a short one blast for down ???

They are really good and Trixie is even better on whistle cues than Molly. It is 100% at criteria 1 now and was thinking of moving on to criteria 2 but will this interfere or confuse the stop learning ???

kizkiznobite

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2006, 04:29:20 PM »
what are you using for the stop cue - 3 blasts is the general recall cue.

if it 100% move it on - it wont interfere with learning depending on what your cue is for the stop

parker

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Re: STOP!!!!
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2006, 05:06:32 PM »
1 long blast could this confuse with the 1 short blast for the down ???