charging a clicker

[SuzAndTheDiva]

food  or fuss but actually she will work for a toy, but she likes soft ones that DONT squeak, but the reward is the game with me not the toy itsself - because if i just chuck the toy as a reward she often ignores, but if I play with her with it- she happy  but she will do anything for food!

[kizkiznobite]

the click is just a marker that is consistent - just need to find a marker that works - claire - try and start with a pen - you know the top of a pen that gives a click

[rooooooooby]

awww bless

yep - ok will try tomorrow

she seems less scared by "click click" like you would call a horse if you know what i mean ?  will try the pen first tho

claire x

[TobyTeaCosy and Angela]

Toby has a real problem with new noises, we past the pans and plates clanging but you know that noise when a pop bottle cracks?  He under the wardrobe and wont come out, a real scaredy cat poor lad, fortunately the last five months he's calmed enough to get the pen click, great idea Bev, he def felt threatened by the blue clicker, discreet little pen he's fine with now though.

He wont really work for food/treats and is utterly disinterested in toys, squeaky throwy toys just scare him, or he shows interest but then scares himslef when they move, will play with a sock but loses interest quickly, his best treat is a tickle and my best attention, a roll around and daftness on the floor, walks and if I walk to my mam's with a bone in a little bag, or am eating an apple I swear he walks beautifully on his lead!

[kizkiznobite]

yep - anticipation of reward - that why when they know the free run at the end of a walk is possible they learn to walk correctly - hence denying it if they dont

[*Nick*]

why doesn't the click come before the treat?

[*Lassie*]

why doesn't the click come before the treat?

It does once the dog knows what the 'click' means but first you have to teach the dog that a 'click' means he/she is getting a treat. Thats what Kiz means by charging the clicker, once the dog understands this then you can click when the dog does what you want and they know a treat will follow.

[*Nick*]

Yes, I understand that.  I still don't know why it doesn't come first.  In the charging process, what is the primary and what is the secondary reinforcer?    In the charge, you're just clicking the dog for eating therefore the "treat" is the trick ...it seems backwards to me. If you click first then the dog knows that the click means a treat will follow. Why couldn't you charge the clicker by simply having the dog show a response to its name, or something equally simple.

[kizkiznobite]

the dog needs to first understand that that click and treat are associated - that the click means a treat is on the way - think about this nick
clicker training is very finely tuned - what you get is what you click for - if you called the dog's name and she looked at you and that involved a head turn for example - then you are clicking for her looking at you turning the head - so is she being rewarded for the look or the head turn - i have seen and had to repair this - every time owner said dogs name dog turned head to his left - even when in the heel position or lying down - it is not a cue - it is a marker
so we charge a new dog by just getting that initial association - the amount of times it has to be done and the number of treats varies from dog to dog - cubert took about 30 mixed from on the floor and my hand - there is no time gap - the treats are there on the floor or on the hand and the click is repeated until they eaten

one of the things that really does my head in is when out - dog is snouting off somewhere and some idiot is standing clicking on the basis the dog will come back for a treat 

[SuzAndTheDiva]

Angela Honey dont like bottle pops either - yoghurt pots get the best or should that be worst reaction  And she was so utterly terrified first time I tried the clicker she refused to eat that type of treats for months after 

[rooooooooby]

it just shows - a behaviourist needs to be flexible 

[SuzAndTheDiva]

Id be very interested to see if Bev could get Honey used to a clicker - I think possibly not, if only because of the damage ive done to make it worse  but i dont mind either way, she learns in other ways so I dont mind 

[kizkiznobite]

lots on here re the clicker - including pics of different types

[rooooooooby]

uuuuh yeah BUT - this thread is about *charging* and the "treats" do come before / with the "clicks". 

if a dog isnt charged does it really use the click as a marker still as i am wondering if this is why william stares at the treats like they going out of fashion ?  is it possible to "re-charge" them even after a few years ?

claire x

[kizkiznobite]

yep..with an older dog that is a cross clicker dog then re charging ( as i do with him ) is often needed