Displacement

[CarolineH]

I watched a handler and her dog, a lovely collie cross, training for agility.  The dog was uncomfortable with the way the handler was behaving - she was being impatient and ordering the dog as though her life depended on it.  The dog slunk away from the jumps and wandered off to sniff at the side of the arena.  The woman immediately stormed over and got the dog, setting her up at the jumps again.  The dog tried to slink off again and was brought smartly back with a shake.  The dog then lay down and started to roll onto her back so the woman dragged her back up shouting 'She is so stubborn tonight, I don't know what's wrong with her!'  She manhandled the dog back into position, the dog was lip licking and yawning her poor head off, trying in vain to calm her owner down.  The woman then pointed her back at the jumps whereupon the dog fell onto her back.  When the woman reached down again to haul her back up, the dog bit her and ran off out of the barn!   That poor dog had tried all ways to calm her owner down and show her that she was stressed and was under too much pressure.  I knew the woman concerned and told her to go away and read the book 'Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas' - http://www.canis.no/rugaas/ before attempting to train again.  She just wanted to go after her dog and whack her!    As the esteemed agility trainers hadn't got a blinking clue about canine behaviour, they didn't pull her up about her handling, just said the dog was probably having a bad day!  I quit the club in disgust.  Ignorance still abounds with all the knowledge now available I am afraid.

[parker]

I actually have that site in my favourites and always go have a little look

that is so sad about that poor little dog, some people just dont pay enough attention to their dogs body language

[cjane]

I've seen what you describe Kiz with Tai.  I've been trying to start teaching him a retrieve, starting with the hold.  He'll take the toy in him mouth, but he wont hold it.  He'll either toss it up or drop it.  When it all gets too much for him he'll just lie down.  I've taken this as an indication that he's had enough, do a few easy things and end the session.  He's clearly not tired, either frustrated or fed-up I think.

Also, sometimes he's reluctant to go outside.  He has to be coaxed out of the door with treats.  Sometime even thay dont work and he'll totally ignore a treat right up at his nose.  Is this displacement?

CJ

[kizkiznobite]

yes parker - as in the day i called brose in

cj when this happens - try something else - as in do something that the dog can do and do well - something real easy - i use the back of the hand close recall for this - do that a few times so the dog feels achievment - then try what he failed on again  - i had to do this with beau a few times

are you back chaining the retrieve?

will make this a sticky if folk want

[cjane]

Yes Kiz, trying the back chained retrieve as described in the sticky, starting with the 'hold'.  I say 'hold' when he puts his mouth round the toy (knotted rope toy) then try to prolong the hold before click&reward, but he wont keep hold of it for any length of time. 

Any advice on sitting down when we take him out?  Maybe if treats don't work we should try a toy and make it more fun?

CJ

[kizkiznobite]

there is your problem you cannot sustain a weak behaviour and you have to click the behaviour - you can delay the reward then but you can't delay the marker for the behaviour - will he carry stuff around the house ?

what do you mean sitting when out? have you not got a fluent and reliable sit?

[cjane]

So, do you mean click when it's in his mouth but delay the reward? Do I say 'hold' again then reward?

He does carry toys around, and tosses them up while playing.  He likes it when we throw toys for him to chase (he loves to chase!), he'll pick them and ran about, but wont bring them back to continue the game.  Hence why I'm trying the back chained retrieve, but we're not getting the hold.  Maybe he's not keen on me holding the toy in his mouth?

The other problem is he sits down and wont move when we're trying to take him out.  Obviously he's not desperate for the toilet or he would be running, but the adverts are on TV and the film is about to start so it's a good opportunity for a pitstop.  So the shoes and coat goes on, gloves, hat and scarf, and lead on, open front door and Tai sits down.  We try 'Lets go', running out trying to be exciting, but he'll just sit.  Once we are outside he's fine, sniffing and weeing quite happily.  But it's just that initial sit down 'I'm not going out there' we trying to get around.

CJ

[kizkiznobite]

trap the hold - when he carrying stuff say carry or hold - walk about with sometreats in your pocket when he is carrying - then get the dead/give - and reward he might not be understanding what is expected of him

why doesnt he get excited at the thought of going out - what has turned it off? anything happened you can think off - for example - had this with a dog - couldnt work it out at all - then we realised it was because jackdaws were nesting in tree outside of house door - on one occasion only it turned out the dog went out with kiddy - got bombed - after that the noise of them was enough - test this by trying another door 

[cjane]

Okay, will try what you suggest with the 'hold', thanks.

Only thing we can think of is the weather has changed significantly. Now very cold and wet. Could be he's just a big whoose, and doesn't like the cold.  We'll be getting snow soon, that will sort him out!

But will try a different door, see if it makes a difference.

CJ

[waggiwoo]

As the esteemed agility trainers hadn't got a blinking clue about canine behaviour, they didn't pull her up about her handling, just said the dog was probably having a bad day!  I quit the club in disgust.  Ignorance still abounds with all the knowledge now available I am afraid.

We arnt all like that


Brock has also stopped wanting to go out - but only in the car - its very odd and i cant put my finger on what it is