Author Topic: Breeding  (Read 80717 times)

millieann

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Breeding
« on: May 06, 2005, 08:17:41 AM »
Hello everyone

I have just registered and would like to know if there are any members in the Merseyside area who breed German Shepherds. I have a beautiful three year old German Shepherd. Excellent pedigree and temperement. I am not professional breeder just a German Shepherd owner - my favourite breed. I would just love to carry on my dog's line as he would produce such lovely puppies. He is black & gold and is a long hair.http://

piglet

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2005, 09:59:18 AM »
Hi there,

Welcome to dogboard !

I would urge you to enjoy your dog for who he is and not think about puppies.  As you say your dog is excellent temprament and I bet he is stunning looking from the colour and coat type too - enjoy him for who he is.  Although puppies can remind you of their parents they can also be very different (have a look at some of the comments on www.karakara-beardies.co.uk) Val has daughters and daughters of daughters and comments that they are both alike, and different in their ways.

In my view, there are way too many unwanted and unloved puppies and dogs already and breeding "because you think your dog will make nice puppies" is no justification in my view.  To make sure you breed to achieve excellent examples of the breed you need to have the appropriate tests and scoring done on your dog to make sure he is actually good breeding stock.  Also it takes more than just an excellent dog to make good puppies.  It takes an excellent bitch having excellent human care and support and bringing up all the puppies for 8wks maybe longer.

An excellent pedigree does not mean your dog is an excellent breeding dog :)

Claire.

piglet

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 02:14:41 PM »
p.s. sorry Val - i hope you dont mind me borrowing you there :)

Val

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 06:46:12 PM »
My dear you can borrow me anytime LOL


Val

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2005, 07:14:27 PM »
Hi and Welcome
Please pretty please love your boy and keep him a virgin if he had been any good for breeding he would be living with a breeder he would need all his health data (Has he had his hips scored) very important in GSD's.

He would be shown he would need at the very least to have won his stud book number longhairs are not even shown, I posted somewhere on the board (Claire help) the last numbers the KC published I believe there were over 13,000 GSD's registered in the last quarter of the Breed Record Supps this is a KC publication.

If you found a bitch owner to mate with your boy I guarantee it will not be a good caring breeder  you cannot make a clone of your lad believe me I have been trying to do that for years in a breed I know very well and have shown to top honours breeding is not for the faint hearted GSD's are a breed that have come a long way in the last twenty years serious breeders have worked hard on many health problems within the breed
So please don't breed him just love him for what he is your lovely boy.
Remember he is one dog he could sire a litter of twelve how would you like to hear of his daughter being breed every year or six of his children going through rescue or even worse landing in the wrong hands getting knocked about for a while then when he bites back gets put to sleep you as the sire's owner will have NO say in the pups at all a stud any stud only supplies a service.
But here we would love to see a picture or three of him cos we like pictures on this board
Val

http://www.karakara-beardies.co.uk/


Hello everyone

I have just registered and would like to know if there are any members in the Merseyside area who breed German Shepherds.  I have a beautiful three year old German Shepherd. Excellent pedigree and temperement.  I am not professional breeder just a German Shepherd owner - my favourite breed.  I would just love to carry on my dog's line as he would produce such lovely puppies.  He is black & gold and is a long hair.http://
Quote

piglet

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2005, 07:34:47 PM »
http://www.dogclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=710.0

is the topic with all the figures in.

Seriously, as Val says you are unlikely to find a reputable breeder who would want to invest the time and money (as it is a large investment looking after a bitch, whelping and bringing up all those puppies then vetting and approving homes etc...) in your dog.  It would be a HUGE risk as even if you paid for the tests and they were OK - there are literally thousands of Champion stud dogs out there for them to choose to mate their prized, expensive bitch with.

Dont get me wrong - I am sure he is really LOVELY and provides you with many hours of happiness and love. 

I hope this helps and I really hope it stops you from persuing this because there are nasty people out there who will use your dog to get "nice looking puppies" to sell for money and who knows (and do they even care) where they'll end up.  Plenty of GSD's in the mixed rescue I worked at - some pedigree, even one with showing success.

If you are wanting to breed him to HAVE one of the puppies I would really strongly advise you to contact a good breeder and enquire about their puppies instead :)

Claire.

waggi

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2005, 09:57:15 PM »
nothing to add really its been put so well  ;D

i have 2 perminant dogs and at the moment a foster dog - and they have all been in the wrong hands at some point in their lives - believe me it takes a long time a lot of effort and heartache to get them right again and in Bobs case he may never be right

you having no say in where the pups go in life or who they end up with

please think carefully

piglet

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2005, 10:07:01 AM »
Hello there,

Wow - touched a nerve didnt we !

I dont believe anyone said it took years to become a good breeder, it does take certain qualities but years isnt one of them aslong as you are supported right.  The lady who asked for help does not state she wishes to become one.  She was asking for information on putting her dog up for stud.  We simply gave the most responsible reply we think in the situation, as always and stated some of the pitfalls.

Regarding your puppy comment -
We do the same for puppies in the hope that we can educate the users and guests regarding what to look for in a "pedigree" or "mixed" puppy and questions to ask and things to watch out for.  We also advise if we believe a puppy is suitable for the owner who is asking about them.  We try and stop situations like the OES below where dogs are not gelling with the new family and no-one is around to give advice.

As for your "half an IQ to breed" comment - I firmly believe that NO people dont realise it costs time, money and needs knowledge to produce good puppies.  If they did why would people hand whole litters into rescue after their UN-NEUTERED and UNCONTROLLED dogs had "accidentally" (not an accident - unplanned but owners CAN prevent) got pregnant !!  It does not happen only to "accident dogs" either - there was a 10 week OES in the rescue near me recently.  Wow - they had it 2 WEEKS before shoving it out the door - TOO ACTIVE.  It was a pedigree dog WITH papers but the breeder had "mysertiously vanished" - mixed rescue is probably the worst place for a puppy with specific needs as so few people go who are eligeable.  If you think puppies go home fast - one lab cross was there from 4mths to well over a year, his litter mate 6 months, both lovely boys.

Claire.

p.s. I would never breed or offer for stud a dog I owned without permission of their breeder first (also i believe some dogs now come with a "do not breed me" agreement which owners sign to stop breeding.

Samoyed

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2005, 12:06:05 PM »
Hello there,

Wow - touched a nerve didnt we !

I dont believe anyone said it took years to become a good breeder, it does take certain qualities but years isnt one of them aslong as you are supported right. The lady who asked for help does not state she wishes to become one. She was asking for information on putting her dog up for stud. We simply gave the most responsible reply we think in the situation, as always and stated some of the pitfalls.

Regarding your puppy comment -
We do the same for puppies in the hope that we can educate the users and guests regarding what to look for in a "pedigree" or "mixed" puppy and questions to ask and things to watch out for. We also advise if we believe a puppy is suitable for the owner who is asking about them. We try and stop situations like the OES below where dogs are not gelling with the new family and no-one is around to give advice.

As for your "half an IQ to breed" comment - I firmly believe that NO people dont realise it costs time, money and needs knowledge to produce good puppies. If they did why would people hand whole litters into rescue after their UN-NEUTERED and UNCONTROLLED dogs had "accidentally" (not an accident - unplanned but owners CAN prevent) got pregnant !! It does not happen only to "accident dogs" either - there was a 10 week OES in the rescue near me recently. Wow - they had it 2 WEEKS before shoving it out the door - TOO ACTIVE. It was a pedigree dog WITH papers but the breeder had "mysertiously vanished" - mixed rescue is probably the worst place for a puppy with specific needs as so few people go who are eligeable. If you think puppies go home fast - one lab cross was there from 4mths to well over a year, his litter mate 6 months, both lovely boys.

Claire.

p.s. I would never breed or offer for stud a dog I owned without permission of their breeder first (also i believe some dogs now come with a "do not breed me" agreement which owners sign to stop breeding.

Claire I appreciate your stance on This situation, however I never once said she wanted to become a breeder I said she was looking for someone who would possibally wanting to breed their bitch with her dog. My comments regarding breeders was based on the fact that a few of the members was saying the would never breed their prized champion with someone elses dog that was not in the same chink as them.

whats all this about accident dogs ? I was talking about breeders and them breeding dogs not someone who was too silly to think neautering their dog was a good idea, beause they did not want puppies, accidents don't happen when it comes to pregancey in dogs, its Just neglegence from the owners who are irresponsible and do not take the necessary procautions that are avaliable to them to avoid unwanted doggy pregs.

its true most dogs do come with a do not breed me agreement but some dogs do not.

sorry If i offended anyone that may think they hit a nerve (my nerves are very much intact) I was only voiceing an opinion based on observation as to what I read in this topic. I saw breeders being bitchy so i commented as such.

piglet

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2005, 01:30:19 PM »
Hi,

I think all the advice from Myself, Val and Waggi is the most responsible course of action in this situation.

Rather than bitching about our opinion - why dont you offer your own advice !!!!!

Claire.

Tjhoe

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2005, 02:57:06 PM »
I'm with Claire, Waggi and Helen on this one. Responsible breeders try their hardest to breed better dogs and try to improve health problems as has been said before. If someone wants to breed or stud their dog they need to have a lot of knowledge ie all the health tests for that particular breed and that in itself is expensive. My OH enquired how much it would be to have Barney tested even though we are not going to stud him and we were quoted around 200 for the lot. Also responsible breeders usually have homes for the pups BEFORE they breed them in the first place. I do not know a lot about breeding myself only this.
Also, I for one have appreciated all the help and advice I have been given by the people on this board!
And I think I am right in saying that Claire and Waggi are not breeders themselves! Also Claire has worked in Kennels so she knows first hand what it's like to have these unwanted pups and dogs in.

Also, if it wasn't for this board I may well have ended up with a puppy that could have been full of health problems!

Claire, hope you don't mind me mentioning you working in kennels?

piglet

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2005, 03:41:44 PM »
No,  of course I dont mind.

I have worked in 2 rescue kennels one mainly dealing with dogs from homes, one mainly with strays and ex or failed working dogs.

:)

p.s. yep - some have waiting lists as long as your arm !  :)

Samoyed

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2005, 04:21:01 PM »
I have said what I wanted to say, we all have differences in opinions, I have worked with rescue dogs and other Animals, But I specialized in the sleding breeds. I did not come on here to argue, I just saw what seemed to me to be people ganging up on someone for no apparent reason and calling it help and advise,

my advise is  to the lady that if she really wants to stud her dog then there is wanted advertizments she could look through  :D

at end of day we may not agree in our opinions but our opinions are not whats important at end of day its the lady's choice what she does.

I will say no more on this matter


Val

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2005, 08:07:30 PM »
Well Samoyed
Having look at the mail it must be me as all the other replies are from listers with companion dogs.
quote
 I was only voiceing an opinion based on observation as to what I read in this topic. I saw breeders being bitchy so i commented as such.
Quote

I think you just wanted to blaze red and blue ink, there are no BREEDERS that replied just one me I am the last BIG breeder last litter 71/2 years ago but knowledge of dogs and back room breeders far greater than yours.
So in your opinion it's a case of sod it she wants pups let her go for it, well I am very sorry my conscience will not allow this.
 If anyone on this list wanted to take up breeding and they asked I would put them in touch with the right people as is often done on this list, doG I may even show their new pup for them,  NOT can you put me in touch with a bitch owner so we can breed my pet dog doG help us we are talking GSD's here, Not a safe breed but a big working dog that have health issues there are more than enough breeders she can buy a healthy pup off maybe even with her dogs lines in it.
I note there was no mension of a breeder nor a knowledge of hip scores etc I also noted she wanted the bitch on her doorstep, True breeders will travel hundreds of miles for the right dog as in GSD's they even imported fresh blood lines into the UK

As Tjhoe has said she nearly brought a GSD off a backyard breeder with no health checks WE including myself stuck our noses in and she has now got the lovely boy she has to share her live with.

 I found your mail offensive both to me and my friends that try very hard to breed sound healthy dogs and will fight to try and put an end to backyard breeding, puppy farms,pet shops that sell dogs, so if you don't agree that in our own ways we want the same thing feel free to mail me privately but without the blaze of red and blue
Val
Who is still deeply involved in multi breed rescue

Samoyed

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Re: Breeding
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2005, 10:03:12 PM »
post removed Val sorry for causing offense in red and blue.

Apologies to all others I may have caused offense to

from

Buffy
« Last Edit: May 07, 2005, 10:22:35 PM by Samoyed »