Dog Board

Dogs => Dog Breeds => Topic started by: Mossyflame on March 02, 2007, 04:58:35 PM

Title: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 02, 2007, 04:58:35 PM
Who owns this breed?

What do you love/hate about it?

Why choose a GSD?

And post a pic or two as well  ;D

I am just off to walk my dogs so will reply myself later  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Joly on March 02, 2007, 06:09:22 PM
Dont own one but groom tons - they are not a breed i like much to be honest. Can count on one had the amount we see who are normal well adjusted sane sensible dogs - now i know its the owners fault BUT ive had more GSDs try to bite me at work than nearly any other breed (shih tzus top that list) and to be honest its put me off them big time.  :-\
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 02, 2007, 08:52:33 PM
Dont own one but groom tons - they are not a breed i like much to be honest. Can count on one had the amount we see who are normal well adjusted sane sensible dogs - now i know its the owners fault BUT ive had more GSDs try to bite me at work than nearly any other breed (shih tzus top that list) and to be honest its put me off them big time.  :-\

That is a shame but I know where you are coming from  :(  I adore GSDs but far too many are badly bred, misunderstood by ignorant owners and not trained or socialised.  I know loads of great GSDs, who are ambassadors for their breed, but I have also met plenty who were nervous, noisy and/or aggressive.  :'(
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Joly on March 02, 2007, 08:57:26 PM
Its a real shame - we brush one regularly who is brilliant - well brought up nice manners - lives with three kids great dog - love him to bits but sadly hes one of very few like it  :( I find the majority to be nervy  stressed by new situations - so a grooming visit is a nightmare. Recently took on a new boy - 5 years old and terrified, just having ihm in for brushes at the moment in the hope he can learn to settle a little  :-\

Thankfully i have met some really nice ones - i just wish i met a few more like it  :(
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 02, 2007, 09:27:17 PM
I have owned GSDs for the last 10 years.  I had always admired the breed since I enjoyed Joyce Stranger books as a teenager and fancied myself as a police dog handler  :) 

GSDs are intelligent, loyal, versatile, highly trainable and completely in-tune with their owners.  It is imperative a pup is bought from health-tested parents with impeccable temperaments by a caring and conscientious breeder.  Positive socialisation is incredibly important throughout the dog's life and a firm but fair attitude towards training.  A GSD respects a leader and excels when given a job to do.  The breed is used for many different and diverse jobs - search and rescue, guide dogs for the blind, police work, prison and security work and even PAT work.  They make excellent family dogs, so long as all members of the family are taught to respect their dog.  GSDs also make great obedience and agility dogs - given the correct training.

The downside to this breed are the health problems that seem prevalent - HD and CDRM being common  :'( 

Here are a few photos of my pride and joy, Flame.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/kirsty4172/puppy1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/kirsty4172/Flamepup.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/kirsty4172/FlameatLittledale.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/kirsty4172/menflame.jpg)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Nat* on March 03, 2007, 01:04:10 PM
Flame is a stunner Mossy :) :-*

My friend has 2 Long Haired  GSD's - gorgous  :)

Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: fizzigal on March 03, 2007, 01:08:01 PM
hes stunning  :o
my sister has along haired black GSD called Shadow ill find a pic  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: fizzigal on March 03, 2007, 01:41:07 PM
shadow as a pup
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: fizzigal on March 03, 2007, 01:42:08 PM
and shadow more recent (and one with benson  ;D)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Joly on March 03, 2007, 01:42:57 PM
Gorgeous - whats the matter with his eye in that last pic leanne?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: young on March 03, 2007, 01:43:49 PM
Lovley pics you two  :-*

Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: fizzigal on March 03, 2007, 01:50:33 PM
Gorgeous - whats the matter with his eye in that last pic leanne?
with bensons?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Joly on March 03, 2007, 01:52:27 PM
No shadows
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: fizzigal on March 03, 2007, 01:59:27 PM
nothing, i think it must be the angle  :-\
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Joly on March 03, 2007, 02:02:58 PM
Just looks all bald round the eye  :-* not his actual eye as such!!
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: parker on March 03, 2007, 02:09:33 PM
great pics mossy ;D :-*

leanne shadow is gorgeous :P :-* :-*
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: bek on March 03, 2007, 02:20:44 PM
as you no i have 3 gsds very soon to be 4 ( april 7 arin joins the family)
i love every thing about the german shepherd.
firm but fair is the best way to train them, they are very eager to please
to me no dog comes close ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: fizzigal on March 03, 2007, 02:28:02 PM
leanne shadow is gorgeous :P :-* :-*

think your forgetting someone  :o

no joly i think its just the angle  ;)  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: parker on March 03, 2007, 03:07:53 PM
why of course my gorgeous benson, do a breed thread of dogues and post loads of pics of him :-* :-*
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: young on March 03, 2007, 03:31:44 PM
, do a breed thread of dogues and post loads of pics of him :-* :-*

Yes as i dont really know alot about Dogues  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: fizzigal on March 03, 2007, 03:35:53 PM
i was hoping no one would ask  :D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: parker on March 03, 2007, 03:46:19 PM
do it :-*
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: travis on March 03, 2007, 06:44:21 PM
Fab pics of Flame,there is a gentleman who joins us on our walks sometimes he has a 9month old GSD called Max,he travelled to Croyden from Swansea to find a pup whose parents had all relevent health checks as no one locally did health checks,(mind you we are in the middle of puppy farming territory)Max is lovely and likes nothing better than jumping through the muck to catch Travis,still cannot keep up ,if he does get close he holds Trav's tail in his mouth,he is a stunner very much like your Flame :)


Shadow is goegeous fizz,looks a very happy boy :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: plevna on March 06, 2007, 10:20:26 PM
We've had a GSD since we got Perry in 1985. She loved my two sons who were little at the time. We were so sad when she was getting old and her back legs were weak, so we bought another GSD pup , Mollie, before Perry died in 1997 and Perry mothered Mollie for a lovely 3 months. Mollie has grown up to be a strong loyal friend. Now we have a new GSD in the family, 8month old Shep (yeah I know, but we kept his original name) who was rehomed with us a couple of months ago. They're gradually settling down with each other.

All three of mine were/are very gentle around people. Mollie hardly ever even barked before Shep arrived with his boisterous ways! I love their loyal temperament and their beautiful, magnificent heads. Your Flame is gorgeous Mossy. I'll get some pics up tomorrow.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 15, 2007, 11:21:43 AM
Pics please everyone!!  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Gracie on March 15, 2007, 12:18:57 PM
when i was a little girl about oh i dunno 8 -10 my dad has a GSD, i was afraid of it (dont know if it was a girl or boy was called sabre) when i 1st went in the house as it used to jump, but this was only prob because it was excited to see me. anyway it soon settled down once id been there a while, and just a few yrs ago dad told me that sabre used to sit outside my bedroom door on the weekends i stayed there, and once i has fallen asleep it used to come in the room and sleep at the end of my bed, but it must have gone before id woken up each morning too as i was never aware - isnt that sweet!

also he had another one more recently who used to wait by the front door on a night till everyone was in the house, and also count people in the house if there was one too many used to pin the extra people up agains the wall (not sure if that a good thing or bad thing) and then once everyone was in would go upstairs and settle outside my dads bedroom door!

no pics tho but i do like GSDs
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on March 15, 2007, 12:27:51 PM
my first canine playmate, guardian and protector - he saved my life bless him - his name was roger and i can still remember the feel of his fur on my toes 50 years on  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 15, 2007, 01:35:43 PM
Roger was gorgeous  ;D  Please tell us the story of how he saved your life  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on March 15, 2007, 01:51:27 PM
my parents had gone out on a once a year dinner date  :) i was in the care of elder sis who was taking advantage of them not being there - as you do  :) i was only a tot ( dad bought roger for my mum as a present when i was born ) i was sick in my cot and choked on it - roger went balistic but my sis was otherwise preoccupied with boyfriend in the summerhouse  :) the neighbours heard him and knowing that it was unusual came to see what was wrong - they called the ambulance - and they just got to me in time - ironically having summoned the help - he wouldnt let the strange men in odd clothing near me  ::) lying across my body and guarding bless - they had to loop him off and lock him up.
and...a few years later his son saved my life too at an age when i should have known better - but that is another story - not for today  :)

i would never have a gsd - but i have an enormous amount of respect for them as you can imagine  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 15, 2007, 01:56:37 PM
That is an amazing story, what an ambassador for the breed Roger must have been.  Although, I am sad to say that GSDs of old seemed to have steadier and more predictable temperaments than many today  >:(

You must tell us the story of Roger's son some time  :)

Why would you never have a GSD yourself?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Kerry_and_Beau on March 15, 2007, 01:58:26 PM
i gotta say they are stunning looking but for some reason i have always been nervous of them too i think because they are used as police dogs etc i think it kinda gives an air of authority...can't think of the right words to explain so hope you can understand that  ;)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Lisa33 on March 15, 2007, 02:06:07 PM
Yes, I feel like that too, never known why ??? Just feel very wery of them.  Even more so when Emmy got attacked by one :(
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 15, 2007, 02:11:11 PM
i gotta say they are stunning looking but for some reason i have always been nervous of them too i think because they are used as police dogs etc i think it kinda gives an air of authority...can't think of the right words to explain so hope you can understand that  ;)

I do know what you mean.  I think that was one of the reasons why I was first attracted to the breed, as I had always wanted to be in the police since being small  :)  I had never had any bad experiences with the breed as a youngster, only good - and so that also helped my admiration and love grow. 

I adore the longcoats and would always like to have one, as well as the collies, but with the health problems that seem to beset the breed, I am not sure what the future holds for me  :'(
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on March 15, 2007, 02:12:19 PM
a few reasons i guess - i am more of a gundog person than a herder - mum was the herder lover dad the gunner and i was a daddies girl  :) i would be comparing and evalulating against roger and his offspring - and they were very special and that wouldnt be fair - i would expect too much i guess  - i keep a dog pack and while 5 clumbers are manageable not sure i have the room or the inclination for anything bigger and of a more challenging temperament

basically - i am too old!!!  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 15, 2007, 02:16:02 PM
Yes, I feel like that too, never known why ??? Just feel very wery of them.  Even more so when Emmy got attacked by one :(

I think the problem is that they are police dogs and the media portray police dogs generally barking and snarling or biting people.  If only they also showed coverage of the very same dogs finding missing children or vulnerable people, the same breed as search and rescue and guide dogs or PAT dogs, that may help dispel some of the myths  :-\  

Unfortunately ignorant owners and unscrupulous breeders are common and they certainly don't help the reputation of the breed.  When you see a well socialised, well trained GSD, there are very few better sights IMO.

I am sorry you had a bad experience when your dog was attacked by a GSD, but please don't blame the breed - blame the owner.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 15, 2007, 02:17:16 PM
a few reasons i guess - i am more of a gundog person than a herder - mum was the herder lover dad the gunner and i was a daddies girl  :) i would be comparing and evalulating against roger and his offspring - and they were very special and that wouldnt be fair - i would expect too much i guess  - i keep a dog pack and while 5 clumbers are manageable not sure i have the room or the inclination for anything bigger and of a more challenging temperament

basically - i am too old!!!  ;D

Thanks for your reply Bev :-)  My sister is a gundog person and I adore the pastorals ... we can't help which we fall for :-)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Kerry_and_Beau on March 15, 2007, 02:26:57 PM
yeah i wish there was more shown about well bred dogs i think people seeing both sides of a case would help educate people into buying properly!

i always marvel at them when i pass i think they are beautiful, especially the long haired ones  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Lisa33 on March 15, 2007, 02:47:54 PM
Oh, I'm not blaming the breed. 

I just meant that I was weary of them before and even more so just from the experience, it was the owner that was totally irresponsible as it had a muzzle on but was too loose and it managed to grab at Emmy's leg.

Not here to offend ;D

Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Mossyflame on March 15, 2007, 02:48:40 PM
Oh, I'm not blaming the breed. 

I just meant that I was weary of them before and even more so just from the experience, it was the owner that was totally irresponsible as it had a muzzle on but was too loose and it managed to grab at Emmy's leg.

Not here to offend ;D



No offence taken  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 17, 2007, 07:19:18 PM
Hi i'm about to get a GSD in around 9 weeks ;D We've always had family dogs( we've got two now!) but i've never had my own. I know quite a lot about dogs but any advice about the breed would be great! :)
Laura.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Nat* on April 17, 2007, 07:23:35 PM
Hello Laura, welcome to the board. Bet you're excited about your new pup - I'm assuming its a pup?  :D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 17, 2007, 07:39:01 PM
Yeah i'm getting it from a breeder in bedlington - barrule. I'll be getting a male called dodger ! ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Foxisle_crazy on April 17, 2007, 07:40:12 PM
Hello you! (http://clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-030.gif)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on April 17, 2007, 07:43:59 PM
Nice dogs  ;D


Yeah i'm getting it from a breeder in bedlington - barrule. I'll be getting a male called dodger ! ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 17, 2007, 07:44:48 PM
Hiya i've finally signed up lol!  :)

Does anyone know anything about the breeders ???
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on April 17, 2007, 07:45:15 PM
hi and welcome - did you get my email?

looks like val does  ;D ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 17, 2007, 07:51:27 PM
No i haven't been able to get onto my hotmail account! > :'(
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 17, 2007, 08:03:52 PM
LoL thanks  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on April 17, 2007, 08:13:14 PM
trying to put off what the dog or the breed?


Just to let everyone know, Laura is our star student at the creche, she's the only one who has a brain!  ::)  Anyways, she's joined here coz i told her she'd get much better advice on here than talking to my boss (who is trying to put her off)  ::)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on April 17, 2007, 08:38:28 PM
No i haven't been able to get onto my hotmail account! > :'(

i sent it as a return to your email hun
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 17, 2007, 08:46:41 PM
Hey Kiz i've found your email!  ;D
That explains loads lol. I would love to talk with you when i finally get my pup! I can't wait!!
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Kerry_and_Beau on April 18, 2007, 07:54:38 AM
hi and welcome laura  ;D bet you are so excited waiting for your puppy  ;D we want lots of pics and constant updates on him please.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 03:18:56 PM
Thanks!  :) You'll be beggin be to shut up after a couple of days! I can't stop going on about him now and he hasn't even been born yet! ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Kerry_and_Beau on April 18, 2007, 03:20:46 PM
oh i don't think so  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on April 18, 2007, 03:39:18 PM
Well the site does not say the hip scores but as an accredited breeder she must of done them, if he's off the german lad then I would not except him to be aggressive just bolshy, just don't forget the germans hip scores and ours are done differently so the scoring is not the same, get a copy of the pedigree and we can all do some research  ;D
Val


Both, but mainly the breed as she had a very nervous, unsocialised, aggressive GSD who was crippled at 7 due to his bad breeding and her own stupidity  ::)  She likes to control the situation a lot
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Foxisle_crazy on April 18, 2007, 03:42:37 PM
Dont worry, i'll be going over it with a fine tooth comb!  Ok Laura!  p:-) :D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 03:44:17 PM
Braken (the bitch) has a hip score of 13
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 03:54:27 PM
I was trying to attach a picture of cleo, she's from brackens previous litter with Ben, but it wont let me!  :'(
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: jaydex on April 18, 2007, 04:15:38 PM
are your pics coming from Photobucket? or your computer, if the latter they may be to big :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on April 18, 2007, 04:16:10 PM
How does that break down ? whats the sires score ?

Braken (the bitch) has a hip score of 13
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 04:20:47 PM
They are off my computer. It just froze the screen while it was posting the pic.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 04:22:25 PM
I can't find the information at the moment I just remembered that she had a hip score of 13. I'll be able to find it for tomorrow.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Nat* on April 18, 2007, 04:24:56 PM
Sounds like pics are too big - you need to cut the size down or put them into Photobucket  :)
Or email them to me and I'll do them for you if you like - PM me and I'll send you addie if you need it!!  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: jaydex on April 18, 2007, 04:26:28 PM
They are off my computer. It just froze the screen while it was posting the pic.

thats why ,they prob to big. If you go to www.photobucket.com open an account(its free) download your pics from computer to PB then, when they have downloaded you copy and paste the IMG line ,3rd line underneath the photo into your post on here and hey presto we should be able to see your pics :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: JCarter on April 18, 2007, 04:41:26 PM
IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/JCGSDRIDGE/I01_0003.jpg[/IMG]

Hello

I have been reading the conversation and thought i would upload my puppy picture

This is my GSD at 9wks.  I put her straight into a puppy class once vaccinated for socialisation because of the breeds reputation.  Now at 18mths she is a great dog loves obedience work and agility.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: JCarter on April 18, 2007, 04:43:19 PM
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/JCGSDRIDGE/I01_0003.jpg)

Dont think the picture worked.  Try this time
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 04:49:22 PM
Shes gorgeous ;D Whats her name? 
I'm going to try and upload the picture of cleo again! fingers crossed!!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/Dodger_030/untitled.jpg)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: JCarter on April 18, 2007, 04:52:32 PM
Her name is Skye and she now looks like this....

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/JCGSDRIDGE/Picture025.jpg)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 04:54:57 PM
awww she's stunning. ;D
What puupy class did you take her too.
i've got mine booked in to go to jenny adams. positively pets. (i can't spell!! lol)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 05:02:45 PM
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/Dodger_030/MVC-007F.jpg)
This is Lucy our family pet. She's 6 and a half now. She's a GSD/border collie.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/Dodger_030/mso97043.jpg)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on April 18, 2007, 05:03:46 PM
Love the snow on the nose one  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: JCarter on April 18, 2007, 05:05:47 PM
I live in the West Midlands so booked her into one that does the Kennel Club Good Citizens Dog Scheme.  Its a local club with not too many members so they spend more time with you and the dog explaining and teaching you if you go wrong.

AS she was the first dog i owned the teaching was as much for me as for her.. but bless she was the star of the class and they always used her for demo's...

Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 05:11:58 PM
sounds good. I went with a friend, who sometime helps out at the puppy classes, to give me a look around and to show me hat type of things they do. We even stayed and watched the master class. There were 4 dogs including jenny's dog. They were fab to watch.
This is Lucy and our other dog Benji who is also 6 and a half. This was taken after a trip to the beach! lol
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/Dodger_030/101_0138.jpg)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Nat* on April 18, 2007, 05:26:49 PM
Yay you managed the pic  :D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 05:29:06 PM
Yeah finally lol. Thanks for helping me tho! ;D

Does anyone have the time to explain how to make a signature??
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Nat* on April 18, 2007, 05:31:16 PM
Ask Kiz nicely , send her some pics and she'll make you one!!  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: SuzAndTheDiva on April 18, 2007, 05:34:58 PM
Great pics everyone - love the snow one  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 18, 2007, 05:35:43 PM
Thanks! i'm off out! bye. ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Kerry_and_Beau on April 19, 2007, 07:41:11 AM
very pretty gsd collie cross, loved the snow pic  ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *sarah* on April 19, 2007, 09:43:45 AM
Lovely photos

I love GSD
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 19, 2007, 02:43:02 PM
!  ;D (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/Dodger_030/114_1471.jpg)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on April 19, 2007, 02:50:40 PM
now i have may heard everything  :) errm on what basis?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 19, 2007, 02:57:54 PM
She has no sense of direction or coordination with her legs. She's obsessed with holes and hedges. I've even done some walking games and i've found that she finds it very hard to walk in a straight line. ;D She doesn't know how to be with other dogs, apart from our other dog Benji, and they both went to puppy classes. Even when you look at her she looks at you as if your an alien! ;D
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/Dodger_030/102_0213.jpg)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on April 19, 2007, 02:58:42 PM
what is she fed on?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 19, 2007, 03:00:34 PM
Arden grange
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Kerry_and_Beau on April 19, 2007, 03:08:26 PM
that pic is so sweet  ;D

never heard of that food
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 19, 2007, 03:12:29 PM
its a hypoallergenic complete dry dog food. (thats a mouthfull ;D) We always add a bit of warm water or a spoon full of gravey in with it.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Foxisle_crazy on April 19, 2007, 03:17:11 PM
http://www.ardengrange.com/
Contains beet pulp
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on April 19, 2007, 03:19:15 PM
yep - as they do
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on April 19, 2007, 03:20:26 PM
I'm guessing thats a bad thing! ???
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on April 19, 2007, 03:48:35 PM
Not a good thing have a look in bevs food rant, I would think she more than likely has an inner ear problem
Val


I'm guessing thats a bad thing! ???
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Marilyn on August 16, 2008, 07:46:02 PM
Hiya

I have only just joined and found this topic very interesting. I have had 3 GSDs previously and now own 2 youngsters of 19 months of age. As you all rightly say, it is not the actual breed as such, it is how they are brought up. They do need firm but fair handling as they are a very intelligent breed and need to channel that intelligence somehow.

My 3 lads who have gone over the bridge.

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x84/marilyngsd/PaintingsofShahJasonwithphotoofD-1.jpg)

Shah: Duke & Jason


(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x84/marilyngsd/JasonFella1-1.jpg)

Jason


(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x84/marilyngsd/100_0376.jpg)

Kai & Indy


Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 16, 2008, 07:59:12 PM
Nice dogs, Kai & Indy look comfy  ;)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: SuzAndTheDiva on August 16, 2008, 08:23:41 PM
lovely dogs, great photo the last one  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on August 17, 2008, 08:10:14 AM
hi and welcome  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 17, 2008, 12:19:17 PM
hi and welcome - i recognise kai and Indy from the gsd uk forum ;D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on August 17, 2008, 01:22:57 PM
would like to see more pics of duke  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Chewy on August 20, 2008, 08:31:04 PM
I went with a freind to chat to two gsd breeders she's investigating in regard for getting a puppy in the near future. I went as we'd like to get another gsd in a cuople of years and out of interest.
One of them has adult dogs from champion lines that were imported as pups from switzerland. They had really low sloping back ends. Dont ask me about hip scores but my mate said they were good and the breeder had a waiting list, dogs were lovely.
She didnt pick this breeder becasue of how low the back ends were, I have to admit it looked almost deformed but the dogs didnt appear to be in any pain.
The second breeder was just an outright no-no.

I have to ask, tho I've had a gsd is it nessacary to have these really low back ends?
I know my mate said she was looking for the more British "teddy bear" like gsd's like Hagrid was, with the straighter back.

Just interested in what you lot thought?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 20, 2008, 10:30:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1LyjlX4Mp8 the pedigree dog programme explains some of it at the end about the german shepherds. Go in at about 6 mins.

You have the english types with the straight backs and the german types who have the roached back. Dodger's right in the middle with only a slightly sloping back.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 21, 2008, 08:06:59 PM
I personally prefer the English type seems a silly thing to say about a German breed but thats me I think they look better and are fitter
Val


I went with a freind to chat to two gsd breeders she's investigating in regard for getting a puppy in the near future. I went as we'd like to get another gsd in a cuople of years and out of interest.
One of them has adult dogs from champion lines that were imported as pups from switzerland. They had really low sloping back ends. Dont ask me about hip scores but my mate said they were good and the breeder had a waiting list, dogs were lovely.
She didnt pick this breeder becasue of how low the back ends were, I have to admit it looked almost deformed but the dogs didnt appear to be in any pain.
The second breeder was just an outright no-no.

I have to ask, tho I've had a gsd is it nessacary to have these really low back ends?
I know my mate said she was looking for the more British "teddy bear" like gsd's like Hagrid was, with the straighter back.

Just interested in what you lot thought?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on August 22, 2008, 08:26:25 AM
there are pics on here of red....police bred girlie ...who is just drop dead gorgeous, sound temperament and healthy too  :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Chewy on August 22, 2008, 06:40:18 PM
Oooh I'll have a gander. Cheers guys
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: PhiltheBear on August 24, 2008, 12:59:52 PM
I personally prefer the English type seems a silly thing to say about a German breed but thats me I think they look better and are fitter
Val


My first post...(and it's probably going to draw flak)

I've been the 'part owner' of my other half's GSD until we lost her recently. Now we're in the stages of acquiring a new puppy!

I'm no expert on dogs (I used to breed pedigree cats) but it seems blatantly obvious to me, from a simple matter of physics, that if you breed a dog where its legs and back tend towards a straight line that you are breeding in problems. Let me say, therefore, that I'd NEVER get a 'German' type GSD. The puppy we are now getting is coming from a breeder who favours and breeds what I'd call the 'old-fashioned' type of English GSD.

To me it's far more desirable to have back legs that do what they are supposed to do - that is, support the back end of the dog - than try to produce a cosmetic monstrosity where the hip joint is put in a position where, if bred for, is almost certain to increase the measure of hip dysplasia. Why try and breed a dog to be a cripple?

I stopped breeding cats because the judging of Persian cats (which I bred) became so stupid. Although not specifically mentioned in the breed standard it became the norm to award prizes to Persian cats whose noses had been bred almost flat. Now it happens that cats have a channel running down the side of the nose which drains tears from the eyes. Breeding in a flat nose meant that the channel deformed to that extent that it couldn't do its natural job and thus started a whole load of eye problems. I didn't want to breed animals that were going to be beset by health problems for the sake of a fashion trend - so I stopped.

The same sort of stupidity seems to be occurring with GSDs. I would happily breed for show - but not while judges distort the standard. If you think I'm wrong on this have a look at the Kennel Club's page on the GSD standard. There's a photo there of a dog with a back that neither slopes nor has a pronounced bend in it. Further the breed standard quite clearly states 'slightly sloping' back and similarly that the angularity of the hindquarters should be slight.

Yet the judging of this class, again and again, favours a pronounced slope. If that's the KC standard and, presumably, the photo represents the best of that standard then why are so many judges awarding certificates to dogs that aren't even close? The only reasons I can think of are either that the judges have an in-built bias because that's the type of dog they personally breed or they are letting fashion get in the way of the standard.

I was delighted with the recent TV programme which showed the 'half dog, half frog' GSDs as it may just help rescue this breed from the misguided practices of some breeders who seem intent on breeding in such a deformity.

Doubtless readers of this forum will endeavour to correct any misconceptions I have.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on August 24, 2008, 01:12:12 PM
hi and welcome  :)

errm...think you misread stuff...most of the posters on here do not support the type of back and rear joints as in the programme
i for one certainly do not...as i have said...there are pics of red..police bred( addy is bright red) who is the most gorg GSD i have seen since my youth..though a bit confused with your post

but it seems blatantly obvious to me, from a simple matter of physics, that if you breed a dog where its legs and back tend towards a straight line that you are breeding in problems
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 24, 2008, 01:23:34 PM
Hi and welcome - i too was a bit confused with your post as you'll find most people on here are saying the same things as you just have. In regards to the judging side - it is very biased. You get judges who prefer the enlgish types, judges who prefer the germanic type and then there are judges who are all rounders. If you have an english type shepherd you have no hope going into a ring when the judge prefers the germanic type and the same goes if you have a germanic type and you go into a ring where the judge prefers the english types. i do prefer the colour and pigmentation of the top rating germanic type shepherd's that are out there today but would much rather have dodger's conformation of the slightly sloping back instead of the awful roach.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 24, 2008, 06:15:46 PM
Hallo and Welcome
Don't think you will get any flak on this board there are many many posts on GSD's the most posted heated words are on colour not type
Val
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 25, 2008, 12:29:18 PM
My dog is all German breeding and does NOT have a roach back mainly because he is from WORKING stock rather than SHOWING stock, yet he still managed a Class 1 Breed Survey.

To say all German stock are deformed is as unwise as saying the same about English.

A good dog is a good dog.

As my dog is required to go over a 6ft scale, retrieve over an A frame and 1metre high hurdle and jump 9ft long I doubt a roach back would last very long!

Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: PhiltheBear on August 28, 2008, 04:09:17 PM
My dog is all German breeding and does NOT have a roach back mainly because he is from WORKING stock rather than SHOWING stock, yet he still managed a Class 1 Breed Survey.

To say all German stock are deformed is as unwise as saying the same about English.

A good dog is a good dog.

As my dog is required to go over a 6ft scale, retrieve over an A frame and 1metre high hurdle and jump 9ft long I doubt a roach back would last very long!

I wouldn't even begin to say that all German(ic) dogs have a roach back. My point was this - there is a definite judging 'swing' to what the GSD world in general refers to as German dogs. If you looked at the GSDs at Crufts last year - which is a reasonable reflecting of a year's judging - almost all were German type dogs. The vast majority of those dogs (and this may well not include yours) are being bred to reflect current judging, so it becomes a self reinforcing situation. However, as a matter of fact - not opinion - an awful lot of the German 'type' of dogs do not measure up to the published breed standard. Time and again I see show winners where the back and rear legs are almost in a straight line.

Quite simply it's wrong. It's wrong because it doesn't agree with the breed standard and it's wrong because it can only lead to breeding in hip faults. The hip cavity on a dog doesn't lie directly on top of the head of the femur - it lies to the side. If a dog's leg is stretched behind his hip then there is a tendency for it to roll outwards from the cavity. That's a matter of simple physics and biology. And is why that 'half dog, half frog' epithet has been applied.

So this introduces the ludicrous situation where - on the one hand breeders try and produce pups that will win certificates because breeding from Champions means they will sell more pups at a higher value (and, in the process, stroke their own egos by collecting rosettes) and on the other hand they are attempting to lower hip scores - an impossibility if they breed to 'fashion' rather than the standard.

What I fail to understand is how it is possible for a judge to continue in place when they are obviously awarding higher marks for non-conforming animals. Is this because, as in the GCCF for cats, once a judge is in place they are no longer checked?

As I said, I'm new to the show world of GSDs but I have taken an interest in this over the past 4 or 5 years with increasing bewilderment that such an obvious fault is being rewarded again and again in the show ring. Is there anyone who can explain why?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 28, 2008, 04:29:00 PM
Because in the UK many breed for looks rather than function unlike abroad where the dog must pass health tests, working tests, suitability for breeding tests.

Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: PhiltheBear on August 28, 2008, 05:03:28 PM
Is this simply because we don't have the "European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals" implemented here? Or is it deliberate on the part of breeders?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 28, 2008, 05:18:02 PM
The majority of GSD breeders in the UK are aiming at the show or pet market.  Most of these homes do not want to compete with their dog in Working Trials or Schutzhund.  To be good at these sports the dog must usually posess a level of drive that would not be suitable for the show or pet home.

So hence the division, same as in Labradors, Cocker Spaniels, Springer Spaniels etc.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: PhiltheBear on August 28, 2008, 05:35:55 PM
The majority of GSD breeders in the UK are aiming at the show or pet market.  Most of these homes do not want to compete with their dog in Working Trials or Schutzhund.  To be good at these sports the dog must usually posess a level of drive that would not be suitable for the show or pet home.

So hence the division, same as in Labradors, Cocker Spaniels, Springer Spaniels etc.

I'm sorry but your reply seems nonsensical to me. Either you want a healthy dog or you don't. I don't see anything in the European legislation which implies that a test of dog health would set apart a show dog from a working dog. If you are saying that breeding for show implies the dog isn't going to be healthy then that is absolutely horrendous. What possible justification can there be for genetically engineering a dog in such a way that some human thinks it looks good when the effect on the dog may be to condemn it to many years of pain?

Or perhaps I've misunderstood the point you were making.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 28, 2008, 05:49:40 PM
In the UK it is not a requirement that anyone has to breed from sound stock.

Screening for HD, ED, Haemophilia and eye screening are not mandatory.

Therefore anyone can breed from anything.

there IS no justification for breeding from un health tested stock nor from stock who have not proved their soundness by undergoing tests such as the AD, Schutzhund, ZTP etc etc.

Unfortunately this does not prevent people with no knowledge breeding from stock that should not be bred from who are either physically, emotionally or mentally unfit.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 28, 2008, 06:10:41 PM
You may say you are new to the breed but what you write is music to my ears  :agree: :agree: :agree:
As on many topic I have said the faults with the dogs lay in the hands of the judges but to hear a novice write what most hardened breeders do not have the b*lls to write gives me hope for the future
Val

I wouldn't even begin to say that all German(ic) dogs have a roach back. My point was this - there is a definite judging 'swing' to what the GSD world in general refers to as German dogs. If you looked at the GSDs at Crufts last year - which is a reasonable reflecting of a year's judging - almost all were German type dogs. The vast majority of those dogs (and this may well not include yours) are being bred to reflect current judging, so it becomes a self reinforcing situation. However, as a matter of fact - not opinion - an awful lot of the German 'type' of dogs do not measure up to the published breed standard. Time and again I see show winners where the back and rear legs are almost in a straight line.

Quite simply it's wrong. It's wrong because it doesn't agree with the breed standard and it's wrong because it can only lead to breeding in hip faults. The hip cavity on a dog doesn't lie directly on top of the head of the femur - it lies to the side. If a dog's leg is stretched behind his hip then there is a tendency for it to roll outwards from the cavity. That's a matter of simple physics and biology. And is why that 'half dog, half frog' epithet has been applied.

So this introduces the ludicrous situation where - on the one hand breeders try and produce pups that will win certificates because breeding from Champions means they will sell more pups at a higher value (and, in the process, stroke their own egos by collecting rosettes) and on the other hand they are attempting to lower hip scores - an impossibility if they breed to 'fashion' rather than the standard.

What I fail to understand is how it is possible for a judge to continue in place when they are obviously awarding higher marks for non-conforming animals. Is this because, as in the GCCF for cats, once a judge is in place they are no longer checked?

As I said, I'm new to the show world of GSDs but I have taken an interest in this over the past 4 or 5 years with increasing bewilderment that such an obvious fault is being rewarded again and again in the show ring. Is there anyone who can explain why?
[/quote]
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 28, 2008, 06:14:55 PM
I  :agree:SP thats why I think there should be a two tire registeration at the KC A. for all health tested B. for the non health tested only A can be bred on and shown or something like that
What do others think
Val


In the UK it is not a requirement that anyone has to breed from sound stock.

Screening for HD, ED, Haemophilia and eye screening are not mandatory.

Therefore anyone can breed from anything.

there IS no justification for breeding from un health tested stock nor from stock who have not proved their soundness by undergoing tests such as the AD, Schutzhund, ZTP etc etc.

Unfortunately this does not prevent people with no knowledge breeding from stock that should not be bred from who are either physically, emotionally or mentally unfit.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Lassie* on August 28, 2008, 09:18:43 PM
I  :agree:SP thats why I think there should be a two tire registeration at the KC A. for all health tested B. for the non health tested only A can be bred on and shown or something like that
What do others think
Val

I agree Val and Hi and welcome to PhiltheBear , you post makes a lot of sense unfortunately that the one thing you don't need to be in charge of the KC ::)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: PhiltheBear on August 29, 2008, 10:45:44 AM
I  :agree: SP thats why I think there should be a two tire registeration at the KC A. for all health tested B. for the non health tested only A can be bred on and shown or something like that
What do others think
Val




There's a difficulty with the whole question of 'health testing' though. Our (ex) GSD had a perfectly acceptable hip score. She had a great 'championship' pedigree. She was, to all intents and purposes, a perfect breeding bitch but we kept her as a pet not a show dog. At the age of about 3-4 she started to show discomfort in the lower back. This was diagnosed as spondylitis - in her case calcification of the spine which, over the next 4-5 years, turned a flexible spine into a solid lump of bone. It was a manageable condition but it's an apparently more and more common one in GSDs. It wouldn't have shown at an 18 month health check and we are pleased that we didn't breed from her because it is possible to pass this on to offspring. Yet there is, as far as we could discover, no history of it at all going back 4 generations in the bloodline.

Therefore, although I think a one-off health check is valuable I don't think it's the sole answer. I'd also include a veterinary certificate that the parent dog (of either sex) conforms to the published breed standard and that, in the opinion of the vet, there are no apparent health impairing characteristics shown in the dog. That vet certificate would have to be dated within 6 months of the mating (if prior) and within 2 months if after. It would mean that both bitch and dog owners can check out the health of the mating partner and anyone getting a puppy would have the right to see those 'health certificates'. To those who say that vets aren't breed judges I'd say that you don't have to be a judge in order to see if a dog conforms to a standard - it's a checklist which a vet ought to be able to readily interpret.

In order to be a recognised breeder under the KC programme breeders would have to agree to this. It's simple and it ought to be effective - although not foolproof. At present anyone can be a breeder. I can - and I don't even have a dog! (But it's born and I have seen it!! - only 8 weeks to go).

PtB
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 29, 2008, 11:26:24 AM
nteresting thread, I do not think you would ever get the vets on side as they have yet to work out what goes down a dogs throat is what shows on the skin  ::).
I fully understand your point about spondylitis my daughter had a GSD with this heart breaking condition he was 10 when it started and sent over the bridge before he was 11.
I think the point is the breeders have to research these problems, we have a similar problem in beardies with AI diseases, nowhere near as bad as yours in the GSD but we started a database in the States via Beacon Health to at least track the lines that were producing stock that was affected they also carry databases for the PWD, and the poodle all three are affected and a lot of AI conditions do not show up until after breeding age considering most beardie people rarely breed before 4 years of age we thought this was the best path to take as it would be pointless throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Beacon keeps a database of all the beardies living and dead and what they died from.

But and it's a big But we have to make people do these things some test anyway for everything they can, others just don't bother these are the breeders that have to be made to test.
In my own small way by having a beardie database I can see what lines produce thyroids etc, what we need is the backing of the KC.
In an ideal world my answer would be no health checks no registering of pups that was we would know that a registered animal IS health checked.
A two tire works in the cat world with the GCCF why not with dogs, granted the cat world doesn't have there head office in the most expensive block in the UK, (that's another topic) 
In my other breed we have the KC saying we have heart problems which is rubbish, but they have to find something to keep Europe happy with the flat faced breeds, at the moment  peke clubs have a vet at the shows and they are being heart tested so far nothing  ::) this is costing clubs a lot of money but at the end at least we will have the proof that the pekingese are hardy little dogs, it's rare to find one with SP or hernia's these days and since the standard was changed to large head instead of massive the rate of caesarian births is dropping they have never had AI problems (touch wood)so compared to other breeds they are healthy, I am much more worried about the beardies than the pekes but the KC doesn't recognize any health checks on them apart from hips.
I do hope that programme has given the KC food for thought but I have to say I do not think they will give up all those registration  fee's lightly and some breeders will not put their hand in the pocket to pay for testing.
Val
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 29, 2008, 11:48:18 AM
Any breed can develop practically any health condition as can humans despite rigourous health screening, it is no guarantee, and some conditions there are no checks for.

there is no need to involve vets, we do not need to reinvent the wheel, we just need to adopt the same system as in Germany.

Mandatory HD, ED, blood and Eye screening, Koerung (ie recommended for breeding or suitable for breeding), dog must obtain a SchH1 qualifiication as a minimum or, in the UK for those who do not want to do protection a UDex, an AD to demonstrate stamina and endurance.

We already have the GSD Breed Survey available in the UK however not many people have their dogs surveyed, for a Class 1 you need to have suitable Hip scores and complete dentition etc  etc.

So there is no need to get something NEW just make what exists mandatory.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 29, 2008, 11:57:10 AM
yes i agree :happy:

one thing i have a promblem dealing with is that there are some shepherds out there who have the roach back but yet have extrememly low hips scores, 0-0 elbows, JRD tested clear, SchH1-3, as well as being haemophilia clear. Shouldn't these be the types of dogs we should be breeding from if we are breeding for health, temperment and looks?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 29, 2008, 11:59:28 AM
Sorry SP you know this is not my breed but I have to say if the dog that won Crufts is a shining example of a German bred dog then they have not got it right either, and no I am not just picking up on the press that dogs had, I watched the class he has a head to die for an excellent front and a backend thats a disaster and no I do not need again to hear what he has won the dog could not stand with a good outline unaided it had to be placed even then it's backside was nearly on the floor
Val


Any breed can develop practically any health condition as can humans despite rigourous health screening, it is no guarantee, and some conditions there are no checks for.

there is no need to involve vets, we do not need to reinvent the wheel, we just need to adopt the same system as in Germany.

Mandatory HD, ED, blood and Eye screening, Koerung (ie recommended for breeding or suitable for breeding), dog must obtain a SchH1 qualifiication as a minimum or, in the UK for those who do not want to do protection a UDex, an AD to demonstrate stamina and endurance.

We already have the GSD Breed Survey available in the UK however not many people have their dogs surveyed, for a Class 1 you need to have suitable Hip scores and complete dentition etc  etc.

So there is no need to get something NEW just make what exists mandatory.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 29, 2008, 12:03:06 PM
A roach bad has not meaning in relation to hip scores but a steep descend of the spine does make a difference to hips as Chewy has already stated 

yes i agree :happy:

one thing i have a promblem dealing with is that there are some shepherds out there who have the roach back but yet have extrememly low hips scores, 0-0 elbows, JRD tested clear, SchH1-3, as well as being haemophilia clear. Shouldn't these be the types of dogs we should be breeding from if we are breeding for health, temperment and looks?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 29, 2008, 12:10:49 PM
so if the steep descend of the roach backs effects a dogs hips do this only happen with time or is it always there. So if you had the same dog but with a slightly sloping back and he was hip scored at the same age would it's hip score be better since it hasn't got the higher back or would it be the same as it was with the higher back. If they are the same would it be that the dog with the roach back would later on in life may have problems with hip/spine whereas the dog with the sloping back would be generally fine for life??? sorry don't know if you understood a word of that :-\
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: PhiltheBear on August 29, 2008, 01:20:08 PM
Any breed can develop practically any health condition as can humans despite rigourous health screening, it is no guarantee, and some conditions there are no checks for.

there is no need to involve vets, we do not need to reinvent the wheel, we just need to adopt the same system as in Germany.

Mandatory HD, ED, blood and Eye screening, Koerung (ie recommended for breeding or suitable for breeding), dog must obtain a SchH1 qualifiication as a minimum or, in the UK for those who do not want to do protection a UDex, an AD to demonstrate stamina and endurance.

We already have the GSD Breed Survey available in the UK however not many people have their dogs surveyed, for a Class 1 you need to have suitable Hip scores and complete dentition etc  etc.

So there is no need to get something NEW just make what exists mandatory.

I respectfully disagree. The position you are elucidating implies that a) there should be no external verification (I chose vets as independent, highly qualified, people with animal health as priority) and b) that all dogs must obtain a Schutzhund qualification which has even less meaning than a health screening.

Frankly, given the standard of judging that I've seen there exists inside the GSD fraternity (in showing in particular) so much vested interest that I simply wouldn't trust any existing GSD organisation. The same, I'm equally sure, applies to other breeds. The KC pays lip service to the idea of healthy dogs and has the power to do something but doesn't. If the KC said - if you want to register your dogs as pedigree you must follow certain rules and those rules must be independently verified - then breeders would do it. Yes, there would be a lot of people who'd jump up and down and scream and shout because they weren't getting their own way but they would fall into line - because if they didn't they'd find themselves usurped.

It's due to the current set up of clubs and affiliations to the KC that these health problems exist so putting the prisoners in charge of the jail really isn't a good idea at all.

In regard to the 'roach' back argument - each dog is different in their physical make up and each dog's individual hip score doesn't necessarily reflect the majority of dogs with the same apparent physique. However, as I've stated before, as a matter of elementary physics and given the 'normal' physiology of a dog's hip joint it is far more likely that hip dysplasia will be more prevalent in dogs where the back and legs tend towards a straight line. If a dog has an abnormal hip joint that negates the problem for himself it does not imply that his offspring will be as fortunate. (And he would have to have an abnormal hip joint in this context).
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 29, 2008, 01:26:27 PM
No external verification?

what is your criteria for external verification?

Why is it restricted to vets?

Schutzhund qualifications DO have meaning as they were evolved to determine suitability for breeding that is how it came about, as a test to ensure only those dogs which reflected the SV standard in both physique and temperament were bred from!

There is a saying I heard a long time ago, if you can't take a joke do not play the game.

So the option for people like yourself is very simple, do not buy a GSD, do not breed and do not show or participate in any other GSD based discipiine; that way you will never be disappointed in your dog, the system, the judge etc etc etc.

I think change comes from within rather than without and that those of us who own, train, work and breed what we consider healthy stock that are capable of carrying out a variety of functions will continue to demonstrate by results.

We often find that the best bred and trained dogs remain at home!  ;) :D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 29, 2008, 01:37:06 PM
Any breed can develop practically any health condition as can humans despite rigourous health screening, it is no guarantee, and some conditions there are no checks for.

there is no need to involve vets, we do not need to reinvent the wheel, we just need to adopt the same system as in Germany.

Mandatory HD, ED, blood and Eye screening, Koerung (ie recommended for breeding or suitable for breeding), dog must obtain a SchH1 qualifiication as a minimum or, in the UK for those who do not want to do protection a UDex, an AD to demonstrate stamina and endurance.

We already have the GSD Breed Survey available in the UK however not many people have their dogs surveyed, for a Class 1 you need to have suitable Hip scores and complete dentition etc  etc.

So there is no need to get something NEW just make what exists mandatory.

I respectfully disagree. The position you are elucidating implies that a) there should be no external verification (I chose vets as independent, highly qualified, people with animal health as priority) and b) that all dogs must obtain a Schutzhund qualification which has even less meaning than a health screening.

Frankly, given the standard of judging that I've seen there exists inside the GSD fraternity (in showing in particular) so much vested interest that I simply wouldn't trust any existing GSD organisation. The same, I'm equally sure, applies to other breeds. The KC pays lip service to the idea of healthy dogs and has the power to do something but doesn't. If the KC said - if you want to register your dogs as pedigree you must follow certain rules and those rules must be independently verified - then breeders would do it. Yes, there would be a lot of people who'd jump up and down and scream and shout because they weren't getting their own way but they would fall into line - because if they didn't they'd find themselves usurped.

It's due to the current set up of clubs and affiliations to the KC that these health problems exist so putting the prisoners in charge of the jail really isn't a good idea at all.

In regard to the 'roach' back argument - each dog is different in their physical make up and each dog's individual hip score doesn't necessarily reflect the majority of dogs with the same apparent physique. However, as I've stated before, as a matter of elementary physics and given the 'normal' physiology of a dog's hip joint it is far more likely that hip dysplasia will be more prevalent in dogs where the back and legs tend towards a straight line. If a dog has an abnormal hip joint that negates the problem for himself it does not imply that his offspring will be as fortunate. (And he would have to have an abnormal hip joint in this context).

a Schutzhund qualification is important. It proves that the dog is well balanced in both temperment and working abilities something that should be valued greatly. How many shepherds do you see out there who are overly agressive or would run from danger instead of protect you from it. The personality (loyal, protective, driven ect) are just as important as it's looks and health. They are what make the german shepherd a german shepherd and schutzhund qualifications prove that it can do what it was bred to do.
(I chose vets as independent, highly qualified, people with animal health as priority
The whole vet comment is crap in my eyes - these are the same people who recommend feeding your dog crap just to make their pockets all the more richer! Granted this is not all vets but lets just say there are very few out there.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 29, 2008, 02:27:42 PM
Is what you are saying 'I am alright Jack' don't really care about the other or have I miss understood SP
If this is true there is no way you can demonstrate by results some people have to be made too test and breed from the best.
And in the case of the GSD it's a lot of people.
Chewy
I must now respectfully disagree I would not chose a vet I would chose a specialist in the field of  :whatever: the problem, a lot of vets are not qualified in specialist complaints they are also in the main very money minded, stick around this board long enough you will see for yourself most owners struggle with vets and vets struggle with dogs because the number one priority is to make money.
Val

I chose vets as independent, highly qualified, people with animal health as priority.

Val


I think change comes from within rather than without and that those of us who own, train, work and breed what we consider healthy stock that are capable of carrying out a variety of functions will continue to demonstrate by results.

We often find that the best bred and trained dogs remain at home!
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 29, 2008, 02:33:26 PM
I care about good breeding practices, I cannot comment on Zamp as I did not see him and my posts do not merely refer to the GSD.

Dogs that fulfil their function must come from health tested stock which have proved their ability to fulfil their function via various methods whether sport or on the job.

those that have trouble free healthy lives and do not breakdown are testament to good practice.

consistent good results have their foundations based on best practice rather than luck.

I am fortunate I have an excellent GSD that comes from generations of health tested and performance tested dogs.  Unfortunately the majority of UK bred dogs cannot say that as even if they HAVE been health tested they have not proved themselves on the field so to speak

Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: PhiltheBear on August 29, 2008, 02:56:03 PM
a Schutzhund qualification is important. It proves that the dog is well balanced in both temperment and working abilities something that should be valued greatly. How many shepherds do you see out there who are overly agressive or would run from danger instead of protect you from it. The personality (loyal, protective, driven ect) are just as important as it's looks and health. They are what make the german shepherd a german shepherd and schutzhund qualifications prove that it can do what it was bred to do.
(I chose vets as independent, highly qualified, people with animal health as priority
The whole vet comment is crap in my eyes - these are the same people who recommend feeding your dog crap just to make their pockets all the more richer! Granted this is not all vets but lets just say there are very few out there.

Actually the Schutzhund qualification doesn't do that at all. It shows that the dog passed those tests at the time of taking the text - including things that the owner may have no interest in whatsoever in pursuing with their dog. There are thousands of GSDs that don't "work". Does that make them 'bad' dogs? Of course not. Should GSDs only be owned if they are going to be used as shepherds? That's a dumb argument. They are intelligent dogs who can be trained in a variety of ways - not only as shepherds. (Arguably border collies make better shepherd dogs than GSDs - but that's a whole other debate).

Personally I'm much more interested in dog temperament and health than looks but I sure as hell wouldn't trust a Schutzhund test to prove it to me. Indeed, my new puppy was booked solely on the basis of the temperament of the parents (OK, they happen to be Champions too but it's a secondary consideration). The other factor that I considered was looks - but in regard to health problems. That's why we chose an 'English' type and not a 'German'.

Your remark about vets shows a degree of ignorance that is astounding. It is a requirement of vets that they have to give professional advice. If you find a vet who gives feeding advice based on a desire to line their own pockets then report them. They'll very soon stop. My vet is a specialist in natural nutrition (amongst other things) and we've been through a whole load of stuff with her about what one should and shouldn't feed. I'm in the process at present of setting up a website about Natural Foods for animals because there is so much ignorance and prejudice in that area, although it's often well-meaning.

Quote
No external verification?

what is your criteria for external verification?

Why is it restricted to vets?

Schutzhund qualifications DO have meaning as they were evolved to determine suitability for breeding that is how it came about, as a test to ensure only those dogs which reflected the SV standard in both physique and temperament were bred from!

There is a saying I heard a long time ago, if you can't take a joke do not play the game.

So the option for people like yourself is very simple, do not buy a GSD, do not breed and do not show or participate in any other GSD based discipiine; that way you will never be disappointed in your dog, the system, the judge etc etc etc.

I think change comes from within rather than without and that those of us who own, train, work and breed what we consider healthy stock that are capable of carrying out a variety of functions will continue to demonstrate by results.

We often find that the best bred and trained dogs remain at home!

I quote vets because they are independent. They don't have the vested interest that breeders have in perpetuating their own current 'style' of dog. Who would you chose? Breeders? That would be the very people who try and perpetuate the same atrocities.

You may think that change comes from within. In which case - where is it? I don't see any. Tell me what's changed by your efforts 'from within'.

I'm in close contact with 2 breeders - between them over 70 years of GSD experience. Both ridicule the current standard of judging - and yet they have bred champion dogs. My other half has kept/lived with GSDs all her life - 54 years of it. She spent many working years in charge of GSDs for the southern area of one of the big security firms. I doubt if you could tell the three of them much about GSDs.

All are appalled at what the breed has become with physical problems apparently bred in to the breed rather than trying to breed them out. What can they do to change this? Nothing. Not a thing. And the reason is that the structure of the KC is such that individuals are powerless.

There is NO evidence that the KC have made any changes which benefit GSD health - although there's plenty of lip-service. But perhaps you could show me some? You quoted the GSD Breed Survey. The GSD breed survey suffers in exactly the same way in that it is impossible for individuals to be represented - it's run by an overall organisation, comprised of the same clubs that want to perpetuate the status quo. And, as I'm sure you are aware, anyone can register to be a breeder under that scheme - even me - without a dog. Where's the control? Oh, sorry, there isn't any!

Schutzhund qualifications are fine if you are wanting to limit GSDs to be purely working dogs. Even then there are aspects of the test which aren't relevant to all types of work. But the vast majority of GSDs aren't working dogs at all - and there's no reason why they should be.

And people 'like myself' care about dogs and want to do something about making sure that health problems aren't bred in. I'm sure it's not the case but the tone of your post implies the opposite about you.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on August 29, 2008, 03:09:12 PM
my only input in this debate...vets...diets...dont make me laugh... :what:

they get a couple of lectures...they get to choose an animal for a marked assignment..........are you serious....so from your point of view then they learn every diet suitable for animal a ...z.. antelope to zebra...rather un- realistic is that not? ....vets are good at what they do...they good at surgery and diagnostics and repair ...it what a vets does....no ...you are wrong..they have not had that education unless they have specialised....and the products that vet surgery outlets sell.??... it on commission...it a pay back for bursary funding...and most vets will go that route because they do not have the indepent dog gut system knowledge or because they are employed by a practice...most vets tell folk dont feed bones...most vets say the allergy is due to xyz in diet here have a can of this and feed it for life...

please...i can accept most of your argument but diets..... nahhhh...you in the land of the blind... :)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 29, 2008, 03:20:01 PM
I do not remember anyone posting that dogs that do not work are bad?

Perhaps you can point that out.

What I posted was that the Schutzhund scheme evolved as a suitability for breeding programme.  This is a fact.  Whether or not you wish to participate in the sport or not is irrelevant.

Again I can recall no post which said that GSDs should only be used for shepherding, again perhaps you can point that out.

As for Border Collies being a better shepherd dog than the GSD this demonstrates your ignorance of the roles each breed play.

They do not have the same job.

Border collies are used to herd and round up sheep and cut some out.  GSDs were designed as a living fence.  The two jobs are not interchangeable.

GSD are the dogs of choice for general purpose dogs for the police, have been used as Assistance Dogs, Guide Dogs, sniffer dogs, as well as in agility, schutzhund, working trials and obedience of course. Not to mention PAT dogs.

A schutzhund test in and of itself does not demonstrate temperament but the temperament testing that is part of the whole system and is continuous throughout the test IS.  That is one of the pluses of the schutzhund system it is NOT a one off test, good temperament must be exhibited throughout the tracking obedience and protection as well as the preliminary tattoo/chip testing.

This starts from clubs only accepting good temperament dogs for training, the BH and right through each and every test from SchH1/2/3 and the FH tests etc.

I do not have a degree of ignorance about vets, apart from specialists many vets know little about breeds or construction and very few have any idea about nutrition.

If yours DOES have specialist nutrition knowledge he or she is in the minority.

Many of us DO have specialiist nutrition knowledge and training and feed accordingly, hence why so many of us feed raw.

Again you are displaying ignorance of the Breed Survey scheme and confusing it with the Accredited Breeder Scheme, apparently there is a lot some of us can tell you about GSD!
As far as LIMITING GSD to schutzhund or working, I am not sure how you came to that conclusion, for most of us our dogs are pets first and they can participate and sometimes excel in other areas be that showing, Pets As Therapy, Working Trials, Schutzhund, Herding, Obedience, HWTM etc etc etc

Everyone is entitled to their opinions however uninformed, I would strongly suggest that you gain some more knowledge from those sources who apparently know it all but still have yet to communicate certain things to you accurately, or if this is not the case, perhaps you ought to verify your understanding.

When English Bred Alsatians prove their worth in the working field, perhaps those of us who have chosen dogs that have generations of health testing, endurance testing, nosework testing, breed suitability tests and litter after litter of sound stock may follow your example.

You won't find many of them in the security business either, at least ones that can do the job!  Same applies to the MoD, police and prison services.

We know the breeding behind these, apart from gift dogs of course!
I care passionately about the heatlh of my dogs that is why I bought from stock that has been elbow scored, hip scored, eye screened and haemophilia tested, passed Breed Surveys and/or Koerung 1/2, and achieved huge success in the competition field.

This is probably why MY dog has a 0:0 elbows, 5:3 hips, haemophilia free, current clear eye certificate, Breed Survey Class 1, Graded G at the Sieger, CDex UDex WDex AD and SchH2; oh and he is a fantastic pet too!  :ok:
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 29, 2008, 03:23:45 PM
I am sure all of us look forward to your site about natural feeding no doubt it will surpass anything that already exists on any of the British, or international forums  :blindfold:

I am sure we can benefit from your skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience in this matter, pray where did you study and get your nutrition qualifications from?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 29, 2008, 03:25:45 PM
Actually the Schutzhund qualification doesn't do that at all. It shows that the dog passed those tests at the time of taking the text - including things that the owner may have no interest in whatsoever in pursuing with their dog. There are thousands of GSDs that don't "work". Does that make them 'bad' dogs? Of course not. Should GSDs only be owned if they are going to be used as shepherds? That's a dumb argument. They are intelligent dogs who can be trained in a variety of ways - not only as shepherds. (Arguably border collies make better shepherd dogs than GSDs - but that's a whole other debate).
how does the schutzhund qualification not prove that a shepherd is true to the breed. The KC states that a shepherd's temperment should be 'Steady of nerve, loyal, self-assured, courageous and tractable. Never nervous, over-aggressive or shy' by a dog getting a SchH qualification it's proving that it can be protective, loyal, self-assured, courageous and tractable! The kc also state that the breed characteristics should be 'Versatile working dog, balanced and free from exaggeration. Attentive, alert, resilient and tireless with keen scenting ability.' can you explain why a schutzhund qualification doesn't show that a dog is true to the breed standard??
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 29, 2008, 03:30:41 PM
She spent many working years in charge of GSDs for the southern area of one of the big security firms.

Which one, perhaps I may know her as I know many of the BIG security firms as well as the small ones including the trainers/owners and directors.

What was she in charge of exactly?

The breeding programme, stud/brood bitch selection, training, testing, buying?

Did she deal with static or mobile patrols?

Guarding or drug and bomb dogs?

Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Nick* on August 29, 2008, 03:33:00 PM
I consider myself reasonably intelligent, and I'm reading this thread with great interest, but I'll be damned if I can figure out who's for and against what here!  :surrender:  :canadian:

all I can say is this...if function isn't there how can a dog be the right form?  A breed's looks should be determined by the form it takes when it does and can perform its 'job' at the highest level.

So I think  that in the case of GSDs a quality shutzhund dog would be, to me, the epitome of the breed.  just like a champion spring trialer would be the epitome of the Picardy.

Has that already been said  :help:

 :D

anyway this thread has the distinct danger of getting nasty really quickly so I'd ask that everyone keep perspective because I want to read more and don't want this thread to get locked  :agree:
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 29, 2008, 03:36:01 PM
Nick

I am in favour of the GSD being bred to the breed standard as it is written, but above and beyond that, a dog that is capable of turning its hand to any task that is set it and able to fulfil it day in, day out, year in, year out because it has excellent health and form.

I see no reason for this thread to turn nasty, unless of course posters are incapable of debating the subject with reference to facts rather than turning to personal insults and uninformed opinion.

I can back up my views and statements with facts and personal achievements not mere sweeping generalisations that are unverifiable.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 29, 2008, 03:38:44 PM
 :D :D
all I can say is this...if function isn't there how can a dog be the right form?  A breed's looks should be determined by the form it takes when it does and can perform its 'job' at the highest level.
So I think  that in the case of GSDs a quality shutzhund dog would be, to me, the epitome of the breed.  just like a champion spring trialer would be the epitome of the Picardy.
i agree with you Nick - i would much prefer a schuzhund champ then a show champ :) you could have a top winning show champ dog who was soft as butter (which goes against the breed standard) and yet is winning because of his looks not because of his talents (his breed ability)
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on August 29, 2008, 03:43:49 PM
I am in favour of the GSD being bred to the breed standard as it is written, but above and beyond that, a dog that is capable of turning its hand to any task that is set it and able to fulfil it day in, day out, year in, year out because it has excellent health and form.
yeah i also agree the breed standard says that the german shepherd should be a versatile working dog.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Nick* on August 29, 2008, 03:47:11 PM
Nick

I am in favour of the GSD being bred to the breed standard as it is written, but above and beyond that, a dog that is capable of turning its hand to any task that is set it and able to fulfil it day in, day out, year in, year out because it has excellent health and form.

I see no reason for this thread to turn nasty, unless of course posters are incapable of debating the subject with reference to facts rather than turning to personal insults and uninformed opinion.

I can back up my views and statements with facts and personal achievements not mere sweeping generalisations that are unverifiable.

So, having said that, does it indeed follow that a dog bred for function will be healthy? Does that not follow naturally then? Or am I oversimplifying things?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on August 29, 2008, 03:59:24 PM
Should be.

I always remind people of foxhounds.

Foxhounds either do the job or they do not.

those that do not are culled, those that do are potential breeding stock. Foxhounds DO have shows too!

Back in the days when dogs were tools rather than accessories this was the case with gundogs, sheepdogs etc etc.

If a gundog was gunshy, it was not kept lying around the sofa, it was no good, so culled.

If a sheepdog attacked sheep, the same applied.

So you got dogs that fulfilled their function, did not fall over if asked to do more than trot around the ring in a triangle so you bred from sound, health stock that could do the job they were required to do.

Once you start breeding WITHOUT these qualities in mind, it all starts going downhill.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Val on August 29, 2008, 05:20:08 PM
This say's it all Nick I have always said Never lose sight of what your breed was bred for even when other have, you have to keep looking at the right dogs sometime they even manage to find their way to become Champions in the showring but not enough for my liking.

Chewy look forwards to your site on food and feeding



So you got dogs that fulfilled their function, did not fall over if asked to do more than trot around the ring in a triangle so you bred from sound, health stock that could do the job they were required to do.

Once you start breeding WITHOUT these qualities in mind, it all starts going downhill.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: PhiltheBear on September 01, 2008, 01:40:57 PM
This say's it all Nick I have always said Never lose sight of what your breed was bred for even when other have, you have to keep looking at the right dogs sometime they even manage to find their way to become Champions in the showring but not enough for my liking.

So you got dogs that fulfilled their function, did not fall over if asked to do more than trot around the ring in a triangle so you bred from sound, health stock that could do the job they were required to do.

Once you start breeding WITHOUT these qualities in mind, it all starts going downhill.

I find it interesting that on the one hand there seems to be a general acceptance that GSDs should be healthy and capable of working and on the other hand a desire to breed dogs that are approaching a shape that they were never meant to be.

There is absolutely no question that the original GSDs looked very little like some of the awful specimens shown today - and that includes last year's Crufts winner. The originals had backs that were parallel to the ground, no slope at all. An examination of photographs of these early dogs shows clear similarity with today's 'English' type and very little similarity with the 'German' type. (And that includes colour).

So, could someone enlighten me - if a dog passes a schutzhund test aged 18 months but suffers from severe arthritis later because of hip dysplasia - is that all right? Because inside the UK that would seem to be perfectly acceptable. Yes the dog would have been 'proved' to meet the standards proposed to enable it to carry on as a sheepdog (in the sense that was intended by the originators of the test) but could be a dog quite capable of passing on inheritable faults.

I'm also confused as to why the schutzhund test is now seen as a standard - the rules have changed considerably since it was introduced and it's now much more of a test of sporting ability (which is, perhaps, why so many other breeds now take part). If it were specific to GSDs that might be different but it isn't - not any more.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on September 01, 2008, 02:02:04 PM
I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your argument.

I do not know of any successful schutzhund dogs ( and by that I mean dogs that COMPETE in schutzhund rather than PARTICIPATE). the difference between the former and the latter is that the former is made up of working bred dogs who play to win either nationals or world titles, rather than show bred dogs who gain qualification(s) merely to allow them to compete in SHOWING abroad who have developed arthritis as a result of HD,

Do you?

Because the dogs are bought from scored stock, are under the BMS and they themselves are scored.

So how would Schutzhund dogs as opposed to Show dogs, pet dogs be more likely to develop arthritis let alone HD?

You either have HD or not.

Why does it have to be breed specific. The ability to be successful at Schutzhund demonstrates the good skeletal structure, endurance and athleticism of ALL breeds, not just GSD.

Where do you get the information that in side the UK this is pefectly acceptable?

What data have you found to support this allegation.

Which peer reveiwed article do you have, where is the literature that supports your statements?

From what source does it stem?

Have you actually ever BEEN to a schutzhund competition, have you actually ever SEEN high performance dogs work?

How does ANY body test endurance,speed, stamina, strength, skills?

Why through competition of course, it works for the Olympics, it works just as well in Schutzhund, those that are not up to it mentally or physically do not hang around long and are moved on.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: kizkiznobite on September 01, 2008, 02:33:10 PM
ahhh...now i understand SP...you have 2 GSDs  :D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Sweetypye on September 01, 2008, 03:05:10 PM
Ps I forgot to mention, schutzhund is not designed to determine whether or not a GSD is suitable as a shepherd, the test for that is HGH.


I am surprised you do not know this, there is plenty of information on the HGH if you trawl the net.............  :read:


Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Lucyr on September 02, 2008, 02:54:13 PM
Just thought i'd add a pics of our GSD's.

In the pic they are young, the bitch was coming up 2 yrs and the dog just under 18mths so they have grown and matured since then (they are now 6 and 5 1/2).

My mum had always had GSD's along with other breeds they have always had fantastic temperaments but they were chosen as pets for obedience work (all have been longhaired).
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: .dodger. on September 02, 2008, 07:27:26 PM
they blue lucy or just the pic? the one at the back looks lovely :-*
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: *Lassie* on September 02, 2008, 07:55:54 PM
They are beautiful Lucy, any more recent photos of them?
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: Lucyr on September 03, 2008, 10:19:48 AM
Yes the male at the back is a blue and gold and the bitch is a blue sable. 

I have some more recent pics of the girl - Tegan but will have to get some of Casper the boy.  They are half brother and sister (share the same sire who unfortunately passed away when Casper was 6 weeks old).

Tegan obviously on the right of this pic lol, taken about 3 or 4 mths ago.
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: -Jamie and Meg- on September 12, 2008, 09:59:33 PM
I would love a german shepherd, i really really would, some of you know i want 2 join the police force, simply coz' i want 2 be in the dog section, i always have since i was younger, it would be an amazing job, mandys niko is lush, hes a beautiful boy, and i know a few other friends with shepherds that i could just steal heehee :D
Title: Re: German Shepherd
Post by: zoe hale on October 01, 2008, 06:11:23 PM
I have owned GSDs for the last 10 years.  I had always admired the breed since I enjoyed Joyce Stranger books as a teenager and fancied myself as a police dog handler  :) 

GSDs are intelligent, loyal, versatile, highly trainable and completely in-tune with their owners.  It is imperative a pup is bought from health-tested parents with impeccable temperaments by a caring and conscientious breeder.  Positive socialisation is incredibly important throughout the dog's life and a firm but fair attitude towards training.  A GSD respects a leader and excels when given a job to do.  The breed is used for many different and diverse jobs - search and rescue, guide dogs for the blind, police work, prison and security work and even PAT work.  They make excellent family dogs, so long as all members of the family are taught to respect their dog.  GSDs also make great obedience and agility dogs - given the correct training.

The downside to this breed are the health problems that seem prevalent - HD and CDRM being common  :'( 

Here are a few photos of my pride and joy, Flame.

([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/kirsty4172/puppy1.jpg[/url])

([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/kirsty4172/Flamepup.jpg[/url])

([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/kirsty4172/FlameatLittledale.jpg[/url])

([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/kirsty4172/menflame.jpg[/url])
they are so so cute my friend has one. :laugh: