Author Topic: Bev.... working liver lab stuff  (Read 5878 times)

GSPmad

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Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« on: October 15, 2008, 07:57:10 PM »
OK - have had permission granted.  ;D

What Kay posted:

There are a few good working livers out there.. but they are few and far between... but.. they are on the rise..

the livers were really neither acceptable to the show or working fraternities, its only in recent years since the puppy farmers re-named them with the cute name and flooded the pet market, that livers have actually been noticed ...

A few show breeders who work/trial their dogs, are taking out livers into the field and doing well.. but very few die hard Trialers are using them

Livers have a tendency to mature later than yellow/blacks, and give the impression they are idiots (come see Hunter and be convinced they are idiots    ) His father is/was a worker.. HE has the attention span of a gnat... who, what, where, oh.. snoooze   

I have a nice liver girl coming to Hunter next season.. well next few weeks, depending on her timing.. she is from solid working lines.. and although doesnt 'work' as such.. she does come out on the beating line...  Just hope hunter doesnt let me down in the brain dept...

Bogeyman is just 14weeks and shaping up very nicely.. so the brains are there.. liver boy just chooses not to use them 

From Diana Stevens:

Do you know Kay, I have written the same few paragraphs so many times about why there are just not that many working chocolate labradors out there yet, but that things are hugely on the increase and quality is hugely improving, yet can i use the search well enough to find it? Because its usually a reply to someones question course I can't just search on my own topics! Anyway will have another bash but send this to you. if you need anything else do let me know please!

Di



In answer to 'where did the negative rumours start about chocolates' take a seat....

Chocolate was NOT a desireable colour until fairly recent times. It was almost considered a mismark and many many chocolates born in litters in the first half of the 1900's were culled in some manner as fast as possible after birth. They were utterly undesireable. the story behind that is purely based on the fact that the labrador was considered and recognised as Black and Yellow (indeed it took some time before yellow was recognised and encouarged infact), therefore chocolates were 'freaks' and about as welcome as a pup born with three legs in most quarters.

Time went on, and that pesky chocolate recessive gene just WOULD NOT die! It came back to haunt breeders time and time again until a few took their lives in their hands and decided to let a few live and, indeed (gasp!) exhibit them! They did reasonably well and so, a very small gene pool started to develop for the colour. Mostly from quality lines whoc just *happened* to carry chocolate in there and it was VERY small I might add.

But, like any 'novelty' in the last 25 years what has happened is that puppy farms and commercial breeders have latched onto the fact that there are (or WERE) few chocolates out there and started breeding them for all they are worth. Breeding ONLY for coat colour and absolutely no other reason. therefore producing labradors way inferior to the quality of the other two colours because this gene pool developed only through the want for money.

In the same period, a small handful of quality breeders decided that 'so be it' and whilst not BREEDING for chocolate specifically, recognised it equally and many arrived in their black litters through actually not mating to AVOID it as had been done in the past.

So, two gene pools exists, and still do, the absolutely damn awful puppy farm originating genepool and the quality gene pool. the problem is one is way larger than the other. There are, however very few working lines with the colour in them so therefore most who decide to work chocolate labradors, do so from either the show genepool or the pet/puppy farm genepool. Therefore their working reputation is regarded with deep suspicion by that group of people, and generally rightly so because of the poor quality chocolates who in the past have dipped toes into working. Dogs bred only for colour often have untypical labrador temperaments and lack many of the breed charcteristics that a labrador should have, biddability, game finding, desire to please, etc etc and therefore that is often where the 'chocolates are noisy, hard headed and are poor workers' rumour came from.

The overall negative impression also can come from the fact that whilst there are thousands of chocolates out there there are tens, no hundreds of thousands of blacks and yellows. therefore, you see one chocolate behaving badly out, and you remember it. You see one black from 10 you saw on a walk and the other well behaved 9 stay in your mind.

So as you can see, basically the vast majority of the chocolate gene pool are poorly bred pet breeding dogs with money in mind when mating. they still are, however there are MANY quality breeders in the last 15 years or so taking the colour all the way in terms of working ability, quality, health and conformation..... its just those chocolates are STILL a minority in what is already a minority gene pool. Although thanks to the commercial breeders, who have almost marketed the 'chocolate labrador' as a breed all of its own, not just one small colour in the Labrador Retriever gene pool, the numbers are on the up. This does not mean quality is however sadly in many cases.

Di
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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2008, 08:21:49 PM »
That was interesting, most of the chocolate Labs I see are fat, very fat :-X and a bit dim


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GSPmad

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2008, 02:02:57 PM »
And pictures of working liver Labs....

LOOK who won the Intermediate Working Test Trophy .  ;) ;D







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Foxisle_crazy

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2008, 02:12:11 PM »
That third pic is the image of my first dog Lucy  :'(

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2008, 02:43:05 PM »
Very interesting read Terry, thanks for posting it.  :ok:
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kayc

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 05:38:41 PM »
thanks for putting those photos up Terry.. I have tried adding some more.. but need to resize apparently.. will sort them out later..

We need to change those attitudes on the 'Brown' dogs lol..

one of those girls in the photograph, also took a 3rd out of 30 (no absentees) In the Labradors working bitch class at Crufts 2008 (Gamekeepers ring)

And the Boy took a RCC a couple of weeks ago..

sorry..but I get rather passionate obout them  ;D ;D




Sweetypye

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 05:43:55 PM »
As we say in the horse world, a good dog is never a bad colour...................

Fortunately for me one of my breeds only comes in one colour!  :embarrass:

GSPmad

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 05:47:24 PM »
As we say in the horse world, a good dog is never a bad colour...................

Fortunately for me one of my breeds only comes in one colour!  :embarrass:

A colour I have seen described as grey, silver, gun metal, silver grey, silver & grey....  :D

Which is the correct description?  ???
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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 06:57:00 PM »
As we say in the horse world, a good dog is never a bad colour...................

Fortunately for me one of my breeds only comes in one colour!  :embarrass:

What about the blue ones?  Or is that a Doberaner?
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GSPmad

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 07:10:58 PM »
As we say in the horse world, a good dog is never a bad colour...................

Fortunately for me one of my breeds only comes in one colour!  :embarrass:

What about the blue ones?  Or is that a Doberaner?

No, they've just got chilly.  :D
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GSPmad

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 02:35:03 PM »
thanks for putting those photos up Terry.. I have tried adding some more.. but need to resize apparently.. will sort them out later..


You managed to get Hunter up as your avatar tho?  ;D He is a handsome boy.

If you are posting pics as attachments you need them a certain size - if you have a photobucket account you can just post direct from there. ;) Which is what I have done with the ones you sent me. If there's anything you want up you can email it and i will post if you like.  :)
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kayc

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 04:05:50 PM »
Terry, I tried using photobuckets eons ago.. and we just dont see eye to eye lol.. so gave it up as a lost cause..

Putting Hunter up as my avatar must be the easiest avatar I have ever done.. I also expected huge red error messages.. but no.. there he was..  ;D  is there a tickled pink smillie?

will hunt out some more photos (most are on the old PC and still not transferred)...

GSPmad

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Re: Bev.... working liver lab stuff
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 04:32:18 PM »
Terry, I tried using photobuckets eons ago.. and we just dont see eye to eye lol.. so gave it up as a lost cause..

Putting Hunter up as my avatar must be the easiest avatar I have ever done.. I also expected huge red error messages.. but no.. there he was..  ;D  is there a tickled pink smillie?

will hunt out some more photos (most are on the old PC and still not transferred)...

 :o :o Even I get on with photobucket.  :o What has it done at you?  ;D
To err is human: to forgive, canine.
There is no trust that has never yet been broken, except that of a truly faithful dog.