Author Topic: German Shepherd  (Read 39475 times)

Sweetypye

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #135 on: August 29, 2008, 03:36:01 PM »
Nick

I am in favour of the GSD being bred to the breed standard as it is written, but above and beyond that, a dog that is capable of turning its hand to any task that is set it and able to fulfil it day in, day out, year in, year out because it has excellent health and form.

I see no reason for this thread to turn nasty, unless of course posters are incapable of debating the subject with reference to facts rather than turning to personal insults and uninformed opinion.

I can back up my views and statements with facts and personal achievements not mere sweeping generalisations that are unverifiable.

.dodger.

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #136 on: August 29, 2008, 03:38:44 PM »
 :D :D
all I can say is this...if function isn't there how can a dog be the right form?  A breed's looks should be determined by the form it takes when it does and can perform its 'job' at the highest level.
So I think  that in the case of GSDs a quality shutzhund dog would be, to me, the epitome of the breed.  just like a champion spring trialer would be the epitome of the Picardy.
i agree with you Nick - i would much prefer a schuzhund champ then a show champ :) you could have a top winning show champ dog who was soft as butter (which goes against the breed standard) and yet is winning because of his looks not because of his talents (his breed ability)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 03:41:00 PM by .dodger. »

.dodger.

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #137 on: August 29, 2008, 03:43:49 PM »
I am in favour of the GSD being bred to the breed standard as it is written, but above and beyond that, a dog that is capable of turning its hand to any task that is set it and able to fulfil it day in, day out, year in, year out because it has excellent health and form.
yeah i also agree the breed standard says that the german shepherd should be a versatile working dog.

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #138 on: August 29, 2008, 03:47:11 PM »
Nick

I am in favour of the GSD being bred to the breed standard as it is written, but above and beyond that, a dog that is capable of turning its hand to any task that is set it and able to fulfil it day in, day out, year in, year out because it has excellent health and form.

I see no reason for this thread to turn nasty, unless of course posters are incapable of debating the subject with reference to facts rather than turning to personal insults and uninformed opinion.

I can back up my views and statements with facts and personal achievements not mere sweeping generalisations that are unverifiable.

So, having said that, does it indeed follow that a dog bred for function will be healthy? Does that not follow naturally then? Or am I oversimplifying things?
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Sweetypye

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #139 on: August 29, 2008, 03:59:24 PM »
Should be.

I always remind people of foxhounds.

Foxhounds either do the job or they do not.

those that do not are culled, those that do are potential breeding stock. Foxhounds DO have shows too!

Back in the days when dogs were tools rather than accessories this was the case with gundogs, sheepdogs etc etc.

If a gundog was gunshy, it was not kept lying around the sofa, it was no good, so culled.

If a sheepdog attacked sheep, the same applied.

So you got dogs that fulfilled their function, did not fall over if asked to do more than trot around the ring in a triangle so you bred from sound, health stock that could do the job they were required to do.

Once you start breeding WITHOUT these qualities in mind, it all starts going downhill.

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #140 on: August 29, 2008, 05:20:08 PM »
This say's it all Nick I have always said Never lose sight of what your breed was bred for even when other have, you have to keep looking at the right dogs sometime they even manage to find their way to become Champions in the showring but not enough for my liking.

Chewy look forwards to your site on food and feeding



So you got dogs that fulfilled their function, did not fall over if asked to do more than trot around the ring in a triangle so you bred from sound, health stock that could do the job they were required to do.

Once you start breeding WITHOUT these qualities in mind, it all starts going downhill.

PhiltheBear

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #141 on: September 01, 2008, 01:40:57 PM »
This say's it all Nick I have always said Never lose sight of what your breed was bred for even when other have, you have to keep looking at the right dogs sometime they even manage to find their way to become Champions in the showring but not enough for my liking.

So you got dogs that fulfilled their function, did not fall over if asked to do more than trot around the ring in a triangle so you bred from sound, health stock that could do the job they were required to do.

Once you start breeding WITHOUT these qualities in mind, it all starts going downhill.

I find it interesting that on the one hand there seems to be a general acceptance that GSDs should be healthy and capable of working and on the other hand a desire to breed dogs that are approaching a shape that they were never meant to be.

There is absolutely no question that the original GSDs looked very little like some of the awful specimens shown today - and that includes last year's Crufts winner. The originals had backs that were parallel to the ground, no slope at all. An examination of photographs of these early dogs shows clear similarity with today's 'English' type and very little similarity with the 'German' type. (And that includes colour).

So, could someone enlighten me - if a dog passes a schutzhund test aged 18 months but suffers from severe arthritis later because of hip dysplasia - is that all right? Because inside the UK that would seem to be perfectly acceptable. Yes the dog would have been 'proved' to meet the standards proposed to enable it to carry on as a sheepdog (in the sense that was intended by the originators of the test) but could be a dog quite capable of passing on inheritable faults.

I'm also confused as to why the schutzhund test is now seen as a standard - the rules have changed considerably since it was introduced and it's now much more of a test of sporting ability (which is, perhaps, why so many other breeds now take part). If it were specific to GSDs that might be different but it isn't - not any more.

Sweetypye

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #142 on: September 01, 2008, 02:02:04 PM »
I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your argument.

I do not know of any successful schutzhund dogs ( and by that I mean dogs that COMPETE in schutzhund rather than PARTICIPATE). the difference between the former and the latter is that the former is made up of working bred dogs who play to win either nationals or world titles, rather than show bred dogs who gain qualification(s) merely to allow them to compete in SHOWING abroad who have developed arthritis as a result of HD,

Do you?

Because the dogs are bought from scored stock, are under the BMS and they themselves are scored.

So how would Schutzhund dogs as opposed to Show dogs, pet dogs be more likely to develop arthritis let alone HD?

You either have HD or not.

Why does it have to be breed specific. The ability to be successful at Schutzhund demonstrates the good skeletal structure, endurance and athleticism of ALL breeds, not just GSD.

Where do you get the information that in side the UK this is pefectly acceptable?

What data have you found to support this allegation.

Which peer reveiwed article do you have, where is the literature that supports your statements?

From what source does it stem?

Have you actually ever BEEN to a schutzhund competition, have you actually ever SEEN high performance dogs work?

How does ANY body test endurance,speed, stamina, strength, skills?

Why through competition of course, it works for the Olympics, it works just as well in Schutzhund, those that are not up to it mentally or physically do not hang around long and are moved on.

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #143 on: September 01, 2008, 02:33:10 PM »
ahhh...now i understand SP...you have 2 GSDs  :D

Sweetypye

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #144 on: September 01, 2008, 03:05:10 PM »
Ps I forgot to mention, schutzhund is not designed to determine whether or not a GSD is suitable as a shepherd, the test for that is HGH.


I am surprised you do not know this, there is plenty of information on the HGH if you trawl the net.............  :read:



Lucyr

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #145 on: September 02, 2008, 02:54:13 PM »
Just thought i'd add a pics of our GSD's.

In the pic they are young, the bitch was coming up 2 yrs and the dog just under 18mths so they have grown and matured since then (they are now 6 and 5 1/2).

My mum had always had GSD's along with other breeds they have always had fantastic temperaments but they were chosen as pets for obedience work (all have been longhaired).

.dodger.

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #146 on: September 02, 2008, 07:27:26 PM »
they blue lucy or just the pic? the one at the back looks lovely :-*

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #147 on: September 02, 2008, 07:55:54 PM »
They are beautiful Lucy, any more recent photos of them?


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Lucyr

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #148 on: September 03, 2008, 10:19:48 AM »
Yes the male at the back is a blue and gold and the bitch is a blue sable. 

I have some more recent pics of the girl - Tegan but will have to get some of Casper the boy.  They are half brother and sister (share the same sire who unfortunately passed away when Casper was 6 weeks old).

Tegan obviously on the right of this pic lol, taken about 3 or 4 mths ago.

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Re: German Shepherd
« Reply #149 on: September 12, 2008, 09:59:33 PM »
I would love a german shepherd, i really really would, some of you know i want 2 join the police force, simply coz' i want 2 be in the dog section, i always have since i was younger, it would be an amazing job, mandys niko is lush, hes a beautiful boy, and i know a few other friends with shepherds that i could just steal heehee :D