cubert clumber

[kizkiznobite]

we got the ask to out and the doing this am  ;D no accidents in house since yesterday morning and we got the turn around thank doG – instead of pratting about playing and then doing – he now does and then has his romp ….it seems such a small thing but standing about waiting for a pup to do does my head in….especially at 4 am in the rain  😀

had another good night – he falls asleep in a split second – flop zonk snore – he woke me at 4 – didnt come ‘upthebed’ sat squeaking when i rasied my head to look at him he stood and wagged tail and bounced about in a circle

he in for a shock this morning – he going to get his collar on for the first time  🙂 and he going out in car with amilou …so he will be in the back  🙂 lets hope pretty woman doesnt come on the radio or he will get squashed  😀 😀

things going good …as i expected falkor is the one to avoid him – the others tell him when he gets too rough – sam is very tolerant and will play tuggy with him and isnt bothered if he gets grabbed from behind on the chase or gets an ear hang – just shakes him off does a gumble at him and then distracts him – ami tells him big time – he barks back at her – does a play bow and then goes back in – she not impressed – even her ‘look’ doesnt daunt him – but falkor is a gentle soul and wont tell him off hard
oh and the sit is no longer sit flop  😀

[Anonymous]

“tharn”

it mean like a rabbit in headlights- stop and freeze when lifted 🙂

[Anonymous]

i am imagining it is a reflex in baby pups so they stop wot they are up to when mom picks them up?  like an adaptive reflex and perhaps also to “play dead” if lifted by preditor to avoid a struggle at first and if later opportunity get free again ?? tho if that true and it adaptive then it would last longer i expect however perhaps domestication has adapted / refined it to just the mom thing 🙂  ??

[Anonymous]

me again !!

you might know it as its in the “Lapine” language in Watership down (hence rabbit example!)

the fight / flight we normally think of is so overwhelmed that it shuts down the animal

quote :

tharn. It’s that point where fight or flight is so overwhelmed by danger or chaos or overstimulation that the rabbit just freezes. They lock up, right where they are, almost paralyzed in mind and body, with their only hope being that the hawk will pass over without noticing them.

sounds a bit like a severe panic attack so much adrenalin is running through you – and from the quote above its definately an adaptive reflex … must have been domesticated

[kizkiznobite]

It akin to that thing (i can’t remember what it is called at the moment) that happens with human babies that they test for when born – the pretend drop and they fling out arms

and yeah – when mum picks up in mouth they do the freeze – not sure about wild canines but starts to reduce in dogs when they too heavy to pick up by the neck fold

it handy in wee pups – when they getting over excited and nippy a quick lift up – tharn – then a cuddle in with a ‘settlesettle’ cue but you have to lift correctly and smoothly – one hand under bum the other splayed across the breast so thumb and little finger in armpit – palm taking the forward weight – first and ring finger supporting the shoulder joints towards the ears leaving the middle finger to rub in the V of the chest/neck – clumbers are funny when it happens because the head fold flops forward and the face is all scrunched up

think the breeder was shocked to see me do it  🙂

[GSPmad]

[quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=11447.msg216103#msg216103 date=1210907071]
because when your hands are wet and full of veg the only option for a pounce on foot bite is to squeal and dance – bit hard to stand still and cue dead on a toe that is in a mouth full of needles

at 10 weeks the lift in air to go ‘tharn’ has almost gone only works 1 out of 3 times now and not at all when he being manic – so getting him that week or so late i have missed that opportunity  🙂

[/quote]

you mean you can cope with a full grown dog sinking teeth into your hand and ragging but not a few little baby puppy teeth on your toes?  😀  ;D

aint got a clue what that means – but would guess it is like where the pups curl and go still when the mother lifts them by the scruff to move them etc?  ???

[GSPmad]

[quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=11447.msg216048#msg216048 date=1210879064]
bugger the feet – am coping with the teeth  😀
[/quote]

if you’re ignoring the feet did you not think of calling him bilbo?  😀

[Anonymous]

hi,

moro reflex, finger grasp, toe curl are adaptive reflexes (or would have been) they from way way back probably to ape/human common ancestor and “beyond”

baby monkey type creature go to fall from tree hands and feet curl around anything to stop it, moro reflex is when you tip babys head back and lower their back compared to their feet – their arms with splay out to the side (NOT that i tried these ahem !! – we had a video in lectures!!)

not quite sure about what the moro reflex adaptive use would be other than to spread surface area offering limited protection from downward fall – perhaps able to grab tree etc on the way down ?? 

these reflexes happen – like when doc bangs your knee with hammer and your leg shoots up, they are “beyond conscious thought” from an old part of the brain that you can see being formed in humans even at 6 weeks gestation (i know – i had a scan and saw it!) incidentally as a complete aside – did you know the heart is already formed and pumping i was blown away !!  little arm and leg buds too it hardly seems possible !

claire x

p.s. in a more helpful mood today incase u cant tell that is !?

[Anonymous]

[quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=11447.msg216112#msg216112 date=1210925219]
It akin to that thing (i can’t remember what it is called at the moment) that happens with human babies that they test for when born – the pretend drop and they fling out arms

and yeah – when mum picks up in mouth they do the freeze – not sure about wild canines but starts to reduce in dogs when they too heavy to pick up by the neck fold

it handy in wee pups – when they getting over excited and nippy a quick lift up – tharn – then a cuddle in with a ‘settlesettle’ cue but you have to lift correctly and smoothly – one hand under bum the other splayed across the breast so thumb and little finger in armpit – palm taking the forward weight – first and ring finger supporting the shoulder joints towards the ears leaving the middle finger to rub in the V of the chest/neck – clumbers are funny when it happens because the head fold flops forward and the face is all scrunched up

think the breeder was shocked to see me do it  🙂
[/quote]

Am a little bit confused… (quite easy to do  😀 )

So it isn’t picking up by the scruff of the neck?  That is something different is it?  Because you are picking them up from underneath – but ensureing you touch a specific point on their chest  ???  is that something their mothers could do  ???

[Anonymous]

quote :

the pretend drop and they fling out arms

thats a “moro” (startle) reflex – its a primative reflex (from way way back) and can be used to test for a wide range of neuro defecits.

widget – i’m not sure, it is sounding more like a response to “collection” by predator in this instance, but its also used for predator avoidance (keep still and it wont see you) and by mum when she’s had enough – i think (but dont know) the careful specific lift is because we’re human and not a dog mum ??

just thinking out loud 

[kizkiznobite]

mums pick up by the scruff yes widget but it painful when they get out of the early stage and experienced mums know how to do correctly – they should never be picked up by us that way – mum knows when she has to stop doing it but the reflex is still in place up to about 10/12 weeks – so the way i describe is the safe way to do it to get the response in order to get a few minutes to be able cue in a chill down – he still does it when he calm or tired but if he in active mode he wriggles and gets even more active ‘putmebloodydown’  ;D 1 time out of 3 – so have now stopped doing it …. i have got enough ‘settle’ in to give me start  ;D so now it will be like the minpin video that sue took with sadie and harry

will have a look for the link  🙂

[Sarah Jane]

Oh am loving this he’s so cute  :-*……….and i like the name too  ;D congrats to you both

[Anonymous]

[quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=11447.msg216123#msg216123 date=1210927504]
mums pick up by the scruff yes widget but it painful when they get out of the early stage and experienced mums know how to do correctly – they should never be picked up by us that way – mum knows when she has to stop doing it but the reflex is still in place up to about 10/12 weeks – so the way i describe is the safe way to do it to get the response in order to get a few minutes to be able cue in a chill down – he still does it when he calm or tired but if he in active mode he wriggles and gets even more active ‘putmebloodydown’  ;D 1 time out of 3 – so have now stopped doing it …. i have got enough ‘settle’ in to give me start  ;D so now it will be like the minpin video that sue took with sadie and harry

will have a look for the link  🙂
[/quote]

I getcha…  is another way of triggering the same reflex  🙂

You would be surprised (or maybe not!) at how many times I see people suggest (on another forum) grabbing dogs by the scruff of the neck and giving them a quick shake to tell them off.  They always say ‘cos it’s what their mum would have done’… Clearly this is not good advice  :-\

[kizkiznobite]

no it isnt mum would not do this after about 4 weeks and it makes me cross when i see that advice being given – it can cause brain / spinal cord damage damage  >:D

[Mudgie]

looking forward to meeting this little character  ;D  He is very cute  ;D

[Author]

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