Interesting thoughts about Hip Scores…

[Crafty1980]

I was talking to my sister (the Vet) while I was looking for a puppy and, although she used to stress the importance of hip scores etc for many years before, for the past couple of years, she’s been of the opinion that they don’t hold a lot of weight. She’s seen pups that have come from near perfect hip scored parents for 5 generations and still the puppy has bad hips…

Obviously, having a little synical mind, I have to wonder whether it can be something to do with the new owner(s) letting their dogs out too much from a very young age because I think I’m right in saying that you can’t hip score a dog till about 10-12months…

I’ve realised that I’ve been running Izzy around too much and so have stopped that now (much to her disgust) but she’ll just have to get used to it for now!

Having said that, by next weekend she’ll have been couped up inside for long enough after having her final vaccination… Is it fine to start taking her for walks on a lead!?! She needs to experience it properly (rather than just being walked around the living room with a strange bit of rope attached to her!) because otherwise we’re both going to go mad! 🙂

[Anonymous]

Hi,

if done correctly by an experienced person at correct age for the breed hip and elbow scores give an excellent indication of offspring scores.

yes you can bugger up hips and elbows by over exercising, allowing young pups to jump and go up and down steps, go to take part in agility and flyball clubs etc… (something a vet should really know and be advising against)

neutering can also have huge effect (something else a vet should bloody know and shouldnt do too early – but they all do)

also dogs are getting ‘scored’ early or by vets who dont know what they are doing so they can look better for breeding – for pet breeders (again which a vet should be advising against – scoring AND breeding).

10-12mths would be too young for alot of breeds, tho someone with a hopeful agility dog may have them “looked at” about this age prior to putting a dog into heavy training / competition.

Claire.

[Anonymous]

I don’t agree with sis the vet that hips do not hold a lot of weight, In my book they do part of my puppy contract is the rules and regs on walking young pups what they can go and what they should do.

Exercise should be 5 mins for every month no frizzby games ball games stairs jumping on and off things,in and out of cars.
I do agree with sis the vet that environment can play a part so can feeding the better the food the better the muscle the better the hips are held in place.
Feel very strongly that vets should put more time into looking at food and not just sell the ones that make the most profit.

Val

[Anonymous]

I know that a dog with good hips at say 6 months might not have the same good hips if x-rayed a year later & vice versa – it’s one of those things that although you can’t guarantee a pup will have good hips if the parents have a good score, you can certainly help to reduce the chances of it by selecting parents with a good score.

Having said that some breeds are just more prone to have hip issues & in those cases i would say hip scores are important in ‘at risk’ breeds. I have to be honest i didn’t know anything about it until i started looking for a puppy & spoke to numerous breeders who told me to make sure the parents had been scored.

I know one person who bought a retriever who ended up having really bad hips & epilepsy, although the breeder insisted the parents were fine – then a year later they bought another pup from the same parents and guess what? It had even worse hips, then 2 years down the line they refered a friend to the same breeder who bought another pup from the same parents & waddya reckon it had? Even worse hips than the last 2 litters & to this day the breeder is still adamant there’s nothing wrong with the parents.

Having said that most people would have learned the first time round & not kept going back for more.  ::) 😀

[Crafty1980]

5 mins for every month… Ok so Izzy is now just over 2 months… Does that mean just 10mins per day?!? Crikey!! So does that mean I mustn’t take her on the beach next weekend for a the first time ever? (Dog friendly beach btw before I’m accused of breaking the law! 😉 )

Bugger… I never thought about jumping out of a car! I put her in it but from now on i’ll take her out as well!!

re: Food… I just found out that she actually reccommends James Wellbeloved but the practice has a contract that she has no power over to reccomend other brands (i.e. hills) first… She said it’s very frustrating… 🙁

[*Nat*]

[quote author=Crafty1980 link=topic=12107.msg232916#msg232916 date=1217240263]
5 mins for every month… Ok so Izzy is now just over 2 months… Does that mean just 10mins per day?!? Crikey!! So does that mean I mustn’t take her on the beach next weekend for a the first time ever? (Dog friendly beach btw before I’m accused of breaking the law! 😉 )

Bugger… I never thought about jumping out of a car! I put her in it but from now on i’ll take her out as well!!
[/quote]

You can go out 2 or 3 times a day just not for longer than 10 mins at a time  🙂

[quote author=Crafty1980 link=topic=12107.msg232916#msg232916 date=1217240263]

re: Food… I just found out that she actually reccommends James Wellbeloved but the practice has a contract that she has no power over to reccomend other brands (i.e. hills) first… She said it’s very frustrating… 🙁

[/quote]

Well at least she admits it  ;D  ::) Is frustrating though  🙁

[Crafty1980]

Also, they aren’t allowed to stock James WB because of the contract with Hills (who have their nice flashy display in the wiating room). So even when she says something like “Hills is OK but between you and me, James is better” she also has to let them know that it would take a day or two to get it in stock, thus 90% of the time, average joe public will just say “oh well I’ll take Hills then seeing as it’s here already”… Marketing eh… Unbelieveble… I know I fell for it…  🙁

[Anonymous]

I had that with the vet we left (i’ll tell you that story another time!) every time we went there they kept shoving Hill’s products under my nose. They knew i fed raw under my breeder’s guidance but i didn’t like discussing it with them because i know it’s not something everyone understands – in particular vets who don’t earn commision to recommend it, then when i had a certain issue with Cass’ leg they tried to imply on my notes that they had concerns about her diet being responsible (that i hadn’t even discussed with them) and nearly buggered up my insurance because it was made to sound like i was not giving her an appropriate diet.

[Crafty1980]

[quote author=Mark. link=topic=12107.msg232925#msg232925 date=1217241183]
I had that with the vet we left (i’ll tell you that story another time!) every time we went there they kept shoving Hill’s products under my nose. They knew i fed raw under my breeder’s guidance but i didn’t like discussing it with them because i know it’s not something everyone understands – in particular vets who don’t earn commision to recommend it, then when i had a certain issue with Cass’ leg they tried to imply on my notes that they had concerns about her diet being responsible (that i hadn’t even discussed with them) and nearly buggered up my insurance because it was made to sound like i was not giving her an appropriate diet.
[/quote]

Hmm… Pet insurance… That’s something else I need to sort out! I’m only on the insurance that came with the pup at the moment… It’s not very good cover either! Eeeek! I’ll add it to the ever increasing puppy to do list!

[Anonymous]

[quote author=Crafty1980 link=topic=12107.msg232928#msg232928 date=1217241427]
[quote author=Mark. link=topic=12107.msg232925#msg232925 date=1217241183]
I had that with the vet we left (i’ll tell you that story another time!) every time we went there they kept shoving Hill’s products under my nose. They knew i fed raw under my breeder’s guidance but i didn’t like discussing it with them because i know it’s not something everyone understands – in particular vets who don’t earn commision to recommend it, then when i had a certain issue with Cass’ leg they tried to imply on my notes that they had concerns about her diet being responsible (that i hadn’t even discussed with them) and nearly buggered up my insurance because it was made to sound like i was not giving her an appropriate diet.
[/quote]

Hmm… Pet insurance… That’s something else I need to sort out! I’m only on the insurance that came with the pup at the moment… It’s not very good cover either! Eeeek! I’ll add it to the ever increasing puppy to do list!
[/quote]

Make sure you do it before the old one runs out Ben – best to have an overlap with policies.

[Crafty1980]

Does anyone want to reccommend a good insurer?

[Kerry_and_Beau]

interesting thread ben and for mepresonally its great to see an vet’s opinion on some of these things too  🙂

re the hips, i guess its something that should defo continue as you are reducing the risks as best you can, but i think there needs to be alot more done to highlight how to exercise new pups as most of the joe public (like me 2 years ago) get a first dog of their own, not really much idea, did some research on apprently crap sites online and did everything wrong, so beau comes from farm bred (over bred) stock, he’s very short for a male collie and has health issues i can pretty much guarantee that his hips etc would not be great and my over exercising him from a pup will have destroyed any chance of them growing and staying healthy  :-\

as for insurance…i hate insurance but for the above reason i am paying through the nose for pet plan cover for life, as a family we have had a few collies and all of them had arthritis etc so i know i am going to need bit, but this is my 2nd year and i am paying nearly £30 a month with an £80 excess  😮  🙁

[Anonymous]

[quote author=Crafty1980 link=topic=12107.msg232930#msg232930 date=1217241944]
Does anyone want to reccommend a good insurer?
[/quote]

It’s a bit of a minefield to be honest. I am with the national farmers union – they cover up to £4000 per condition per year for life and are very reasonable but it depends on what level of cover you want. Shop around & steer well clear of E&L. Make sure you buy a lifetime policy & not one that only treats each condition for 12 months then excludes that condition.

I’ve got some links for places that can give you some quotes – i’ll pm you so we don’t wander off topic too much.  😉

[Anonymous]

I am so pleased you posted this as it’s something we bang on about all the time  ::) vets and food don’t listen to them  😉 my personal preferance is always raw/home cooked. But know there are lots of good marketing with BIG dog food companies.
If the breeder knows what they are doing then hips become less of a problem you cannot hip score a dog until it is over a year old even with this there are two schools of thought some breeders do them at a year including me others wait until they are older, they recon the ball sits in the socket better as they get older.
Me I believe if you breed for good hips and you get good hips they will always be good hips, unless an owner mucks them up
As an old fart on this board we always add the parents scores up total, halve it and that what the pups will have give or take a point never fails in this house if you look at my site you will see they are below the breed average and all about the same, plus I never let a vet do my dogs hips ever
Val

[quote author=Crafty1980 link=topic=12107.msg232923#msg232923 date=1217240820]
Also, they aren’t allowed to stock James WB because of the contract with Hills (who have their nice flashy display in the wiating room). So even when she says something like “Hills is OK but between you and me, James is better” she also has to let them know that it would take a day or two to get it in stock, thus 90% of the time, average joe public will just say “oh well I’ll take Hills then seeing as it’s here already”… Marketing eh… Unbelieveble… I know I fell for it…  🙁
[/quote]

[*Lassie*]

Insurance 😉
http://www.vip4u.co.uk/

[Author]

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