August 1, 2006 at 5:20 pm #93006
ok, I get it now! 🙂 Emmy is a bully!
But how can I put this into practice with Emmy and another dog? ???August 1, 2006 at 5:26 pm #93007
you have to deny her the reward of the hunt until you have cues in place and you have to let her learn and understand that she can trust you to protect her so she doesnt have to protect herselfAugust 1, 2006 at 5:26 pm #93008
the sideways palm up sweep with left hand claire
yes – i got that one 🙂 and brose would turn away from bonnieAugust 1, 2006 at 5:28 pm #93009
she is working and will follow my cues and let me take over the sentence responses 100% because she trusts me to protect her and knows i do not need protecting – if we in that situation then she reads me and we have deifferent cues for that.
yep i could see that – that was the most fascinating bit for me 🙂August 1, 2006 at 5:30 pm #93010
what happened with claire is that bonnie learnt that she is not in control and if another dog comes up then mum will take care of me and i dont have to take care of myself and anyway i dont need to bully cos i can now play nice if the other dog wants to which is much more rewarding than taking it on and having it run away
whereas before i would have “trusted” wills that he could manage and he isnt a great one for dog speak either really 🙁August 1, 2006 at 5:31 pm #93011
when you say deny her the reward of the hunt, do you mean keep her on the lead and then tell her leave so she learns in that way?August 1, 2006 at 5:40 pm #93012
yep – you go back to basics – she does not get the reward of free running unless she accepts being under management – all learning goes back to criteria 1 through to 4 until they can be tested at 5 then any weakness can be assessed and you can work on the individual cues at the level they are weak at – this is what is happening with gracie – with alfie we did this then we restored the look to cueAugust 1, 2006 at 9:04 pm #93013
MMMMMMMMM I would have said William understood dog talk very well but I would not call him the worlds greatest manager he worries a lot
[quote author=piglet link=topic=4187.msg58123#msg58123 date=1154453432]
whereas before i would have “trusted” wills that he could manage and he isnt a great one for dog speak either really 🙁
[/quote]August 1, 2006 at 9:18 pm #93014
oops – i didnt mean wills “manage” as in take over i meant that he would choose flight back to mommy if things got too much for him.
the worrying is from me, i imagine i have said “good boy” in some inappropriate place or other 50,000 times atleast which has made him constantly tell me he is “OK” – like in the first video’s of him and bonnie.
i am undecided whether he speaks dog ok sometimes i think he does, other times i think he doesnt – maybe you have it right val and that he does, and is good at it but i bloody re-inforce him with my worrying rubbish to make him worried 🙁 he is better round dogs i trust – hence all went swimmingly when he met yours, although i was more nervous about the pekes and all went OK when he met bev’s too but sometimes in the park things dont go as nicely its easy to say “ohits the other dogs fault” but surely if he can read dog then he should get out the way if they are saying mean things – or is it other dogs that cant speak dog that he finds difficult ??? if so why is he ok with bonnie who doesnt really speak dog and needs to be told “very loud and slow like a dimwit” (sorry brose !!)
my head is spinning …
wills was diffusing between jazz and bonnie on the beach bless his little heart x x x theres no way u having him he is SO bloody special 🙂 bonnie asks that she be given a second chance when she is all squeeky and polished she’ll come and show you what a good girl she is another time ? she said shes sorry she was a snippysnappy doggy and promises to try try try really hard to be good enough to play with the nice beardie doggies again
p.s. dont think i said – i met a beardie pup on holiday doG it was lovely but its claws were bl**dy scratchy !!! oh and i twatted my head just before we left on the van stair-rail … still hurts now maybe it knocked sense into me ?August 1, 2006 at 9:28 pm #93015
bev i knoe you said that you needed brose to teach gracie some greeting manners, but i thought brose would tell her off, know that she wasnt reading all 10 greeting.
i didnt realise that you had 12 greetings on cue and you could effetivly ask brose to greet a dog in anyway you want WOW
🙂August 1, 2006 at 9:35 pm #93016
she will tell off if i dont interfere – she good at fetching rude dogs back from other dogs – a neck snap and a shove up the bum then stands between with a very firm ‘go away’ hehe she is funny ;DAugust 1, 2006 at 9:40 pm #93017
oh and lisa graice is a bully too, she stalked a man and chased a little dog went i was out with bev, so now graice is not allowed anymore free running, infact at the moment gracie isnt getting any exercise outside the garden, but that coz she pulls on the lead, or did til bev came to the rescue, will have to take out for walkies tomorrow see how she does, (but she is getting loads of trianing and freeshaping so she is tired anyway)
anyway, im doing management stuff with gracie, the best place to be is around my feet and all that,cueing go sniff, go play, but she isnt to be more than 2 ft away from me, and as she is under management, if i see another dog i can call her back without her thinking ‘ oh im getting called back’, and looking around to see why and then not coming back because she then spots the threat
then when we get that far, im to put her on lead and ask other owners permission if she can greet other dog, after reading body lang that other dog is ok with it and eventually should be able to do this off lead as she will be under management!
kiz – i didnt realise that you had it all cued, so in gracies case where that little dog on beach had go away body lang, but it wants very strong, so gracie ignored. could you get brose to do that,(ie not a strong sod off)but then follow with stronger lang, if gracie had ignored
hope this helps lisaAugust 1, 2006 at 9:43 pm #93018
It’s good to know I’m ot the only shameful one on here!!! 😀
Thanks for the advice, it’s realy helpful, I shall be walking her on lead for now until we can get her back in line!! 😉August 1, 2006 at 9:46 pm #93019
this is what i thought Layla would do. i thought she would take one look at bonnie and give her an almighty bl**dy good telling “get out of my FACE you little c*w” but … she didnt – OH she told Bonnie alright but much calmer than i thought – really like “oh god – just go away yeah? you’re sooo below me you little madam” it took several attempts but i would she was getting there but Val was stepping in to manage Layla so things didnt get out of hand … would you say i read that right Val?
so….. i learned that dogs, even real pack manager bitches – dont “go in for the kill” they give chances and Layla who i dont think is as highly cued as brose on each individual part showed bonnie that she was boss actually BUT because it wasnt broken down enough like Brose can and because i wasnt confident enough to manage bonnie effectively she didnt really learn the lesson …
can you see what i am getting at ?
With a dog that has been specifically trained to work with other dogs like Brose has the capability to have the behaviours slowed down and stopped in some cases to allow bonnie to have it broken down “in big letters with pictures” so she gets the message. incidentally i always believed that dogs who dont speak dog lacked puppy socialisation but now i know that it can be early seperation from mommy 🙁 oh my poor bonnie … i wonder what happened to your mommy sweetheart and at the same time i am so thankful you cannot tell me the details 🙂 ooh i do love my special girl i never thought i would feel the same having a girl dog but she’s lovely 🙂
we all do things that arent quite right 🙂 dispite reading the board i still walked both my dogs with amost no on-lead cues 😉
claire xAugust 1, 2006 at 9:49 pm #93020
[quote author=Lisa33 link=topic=4187.msg58332#msg58332 date=1154468602]
It’s good to know I’m ot the only shameful one on here!!! 😀
Thanks for the advice, it’s realy helpful, I shall be walking her on lead for now until we can get her back in line!! 😉
nope lisa im up there with you in the box of shame 😀
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