August 1, 2006 at 9:49 pm #93021
yes that was we did with bonnie to start with – not strong just a go away hun no play today once bonnie eventually was reading that then i got brose acting silly with me – giving kisses and making her move about fast ignoring bonnie – when bonnie came up to us doing this the first time brose warned her off – then i put brose in to 2 step – front paws on my lap bonnie lunged a couple of times and barked and brose did her strong – i said sod off now go away – and bonnie did. with ami there was only 2 warnings – grumble and lip curl and the a real growly dont even think a about itAugust 1, 2006 at 9:52 pm #93022
Thanks Bev and Claire this has been such a help! I reckon Emmy should of had socialisation classes even though we did behavior training!! and now know that for future???!!!
But, I still have to rectify our problem and with all this help on here from you all I am most certain I shall crack it!! (fingers and toes crossed!!) 😉August 1, 2006 at 9:56 pm #93023
brose looked so pretty today 🙂
ami was more how i expected her to be told p*ss off – i guess stronger, and less subtle … apart from her being cued to a lesser extent is there any reason why she will go in stronger than brose ? is it lack of management experience because she looks to brose and you for the simple stuff ?
Claire xAugust 1, 2006 at 9:58 pm #93024
lets look at the logic
dog pack leaders/potential leaders (used to be termed alphas) – they have one biological aim – to pass on their genes – they cannot do this if they get killed or injured – this is what would happen if they just went in fur flying – a good manager is flexible – can communicate to and receive communication from – can diffuse an iffy situation or can make the decision to end the dispute – by behaving this way they maintain the structure of the pack which is only there for their own survial in order that the genes can be passed on.
it is the other dogs – used to be called sub alpha’s that are the pain in the bum – this is because they dont problem solve and think things through – hence the reason for doing free shaping exercises – it teaches the dog to do just this – think and problem solve.August 1, 2006 at 10:03 pm #93025
it is because brose was picked to do just what she does and was raised from day one to accept my management – she does not accept these cues from Mo – ami was 7 months or so when she came to me and had had no training and no management at all plus she had bitten – other dogs and the judge that wacked her in the face with his sporran so she had learned how to defend herselfAugust 1, 2006 at 10:10 pm #93026
can dogs who have initially been socialised and communicate OK “lose” this through bad experiences so that they are left with only strong language – e.g. straight in to bite ? or is it likely these dogs have suffered physical damage … ?
Claire xAugust 1, 2006 at 10:12 pm #93027
depends on the temperament and the age at which it happens – dogs that are attacked at the classical stage are classically conditioned to defend themselves regardless – they are the hardest to try and remodify and the success rate is lowerJanuary 4, 2009 at 6:49 pm #93028
just because i think it makes a good read once in a while !January 4, 2009 at 7:05 pm #93029
really interesting :yes:, thanks for bumping claire 🙂January 4, 2009 at 7:40 pm #93030
generally, i am pleased that Hugh says William is in good physical health though a little suprised he commented that he was a little under weight. First time ever I have been to the vets and not been questioned about vaccinations/worming/flea treatment – very shocked!!! i have added 1 or 2 wings ontop of his normal food most days now to give him some more to eat. I had 8 days supply of Valerian tablets left so i thought i would give them another try while I am around and I’m not sure at the moment if its making a difference!
outside, William has actually come on alot since I wrote this – as a measure of how far he’s come while we were out yesterday we had one of our “cowboy” moments in the park. we had a black dog come towards us off-lead and then freeze and William froze too, tail stiff in the air. (if he is allowed, this usually results in a stand off for a little while and then William racing towards the other dog at 100 miles an hour and poking his nose everywhere and possibly putting feet on back) – if you catch it before he freezes you can probably 7/10 call him if you do silly voice and dance about alot, after he freezes it used to be absolutely NO hope … but yesterday I mustered up some confidence from somewhere and stuck at cueing leaveit with a thisway and waving my “ball hand” about a bit as I happened to be holding it at the time! and he turned and recalled to me for lots of fuss and the ball. Then I put him onlead and the black dog kept coming and William wanted to try and pull towards it but I didnt let him greet until he was calm and he didnt grumble or do any legs – *yay* 🙂 His recalls are much improved particularly if good treats or the ball in a game with bonnie (must be her + ball to be a reward otherwise its not a desired resource) are available. I did some work yesterday with “quiet” and we managed a few throws with no barking (little short of amazing!!) but I did also notice that he is now ALOT slower than Bonnie from a standing start he can only cover 50% distance to a “chucked” ball by the time she’s got it but overall he isnt tiring that easily which is encouraging. I suppose he is over double her age 😉
inside, i have moved william’s crate back into the lounge as that seems to be where he’s most relaxed being left generally and I have also swapped the curtains in there for full length ones so they cant get their heads under and see out – oooh i’m so mean !! 🙂 I have also moved the sofa just leaving the “tippy” chair which isnt very stable to stand on near the window. Initial tries of leaving them seem to have been successful but we clearly still have some issues because they had a proper set-to this morning and i have few idea’s why as there are very very very very few resources that Wills would consider challenging Bonnie over and none of them were in the room at the time !! (one for Bev perhaps!!?)
uni doesnt start until next week which means i have this week where harry is going to the childminders “as normal” and i can leave the house and come back etc …. as much as i need to so Bev … this is what i was thinking i could really use you for – need some destructions 🙂
general – have put her on 8 days of valerian too, oh i forgot to say in wills dogs – no barking NYE !!!! very pleased indeed – perhaps that was the valerian working as Will would usually bark and set Bonnie off too. “ratfink” (my pet name for next doors daughters KCCS) has been there over festive period and barked alot while they were out but my 2 both seem to tolerate it now. however “mini sheep” (other side’s little dog clippered within an inch of its life) is reactive to all the same things my 2 are and is getting worse and does sometimes set them off but they will shut up with a “leaveit” or ummm bit of an admission here – i probably say the first thing that comes into my head, sometimes it is “leaveit” other times its “ahah” other times “oi” or “settle” … mmm i sense the red pen coming out at this point !!!!
inside – generally she’s good – *touch wood* she’s only had a packet of foxes glacier fruits all xmas – oh and a carrot !! that she’s erm ….. “acquired” shall we say 😉 my main problem with her is that she seems so focussed – like if Harry picks a toy up she’ll play but nothing or no-one else exists which usually results in Harry getting knocked over (which he thinks is super) but i am not so keen on really. this same sort of behaviour scatting about and whining etc … happens when she thinks i’m going to be taking her for a walk – she obviously picking up a cue that is making her think this (or just hopeful) but it would be alot easier on her when she’s left to settle if she wants wound up to start with !! i feel like she’s a “kid on sweeties” but she isnt having high protein food or too many treats etc … i can control this when we are actually going for walks by using cues and getting her to sit / wait etc … and door manners but her back legs literally shake with anticipation and if you dont do really firm cues she’ll drag you all the way to wherever you’re going. she bleedin well knows H-C and self corrects / does on cue but if shes fizzy like this its fluent and reliable but she anticipating – she 3 steps ahead of me !! if i stop she self corrects and after about 10 times she gets the message!
outdoors – still very good, called her off mid-chase with a rabbit yesterday on the walk and she greeted the black dog when i said for her to (well huffed at it!!) also she goes all slathery and foamy at the mouth on walks – she didnt used to i am sure she didnt ?? happens more if i cue her to chase rabbits. had a funny moment yesteday where i threw the ball towards some rabbits and she was like ball – rabbit – ball – rabbit and turned her head about 6 times before deciding “ball” lol !!!!!! she’s not rarred at another dog unprovoked as long as i can remember now, she had some scuffles with Misty and has learned from this that she can manage other dogs if she keeps on giving firmer and firmer warnings which is good on one way but she is very confident it will work – however will come out on cue “under fire” – like when Sammy attacked her. Hopefully this has taught her to keep listening to me and she’ll be OK.
Misty … sent me a card and present for xmas and she’s getting on just fine – WOW she is sure getting exercise she has muscled up NO END from the skinny thing that left here …. and is apparently unpacking her own “little ways” bless her ! I will pop to see her in the new year and hopefully take some pictures to show you all. She’s in total dog heaven !! 🙂
p.s. i can close my eyes and picture brose standing up my street – i can feel the light wind and see her coat moving against the sunlight. *blub*January 5, 2009 at 8:38 pm #93031
i’m always going on about how we literally meet no-one on walks well today we met 1 dog – a blacky-brown lab which bounded over to us and looked to my best guess pretty non threatening and wanting to play – missus bonnie was doing her i see you i dont care i have the ball ignoring, william was quite rrruuurrrry tho it felt like he wanted the other dog to go away and not play with us ?
was your typical boundy young play with everything and everyone labrador – focussed in on wills didnt really come near me H or B. i realise that he seems to think he needs to protect us from the intruder maybe but why and what cues would you use to stop it ?
BEV !!!! we need you 🙂
Claire xJanuary 19, 2009 at 12:18 pm #93032
Two things – ta for bumping this – I fear Rafe is a bully (or a spoilt brat – as I also fear tis my fault!)
And the second – Rafe is not the best at speaking dog, and when we went on walkies the other week I would not in my wildest dreams have imagined Bonnie had the problems you told me about… She was soooooooo good with him!! And he’s a bundle of naughtiness sometimes! And Wills was fab about it too. I know it’s always an uphill struggle but your dogs are a credit to the work you’ve put in (or at least they were when we met them!! 😉 )
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