temper temper

[wags]

ive got an idea

you give me dodger and you borrow either Cle or Ob  😉

[Mudgie]

when bev came to visit nooch for a long weekend not once did she use the ball with us  :what:  :nono:  I saw my dog in a whole new light – I depended on the ball for a whole load of stuff – It was my comfort zone – what bev showed me (and a whole lot more) is that doggies want to learn, they need boundaries, they want a pack manager, they want to be led.  ;D  I had this face for most of the time Bev was here  :surprise:  :surprise: occasionally I had this face  :'( but only because I felt I had wasted so mudge time and was leading nooch the wrong way – you dont need a ball Laura – honestly you dont  :-*

[.dodger.]

i no what you are all saying about being dependent on the ball but that is the only thing that will work. There are posts and posts about him not listening to me. I tried getting excited, using treats, not feeding him and then using his food (not easy when it’s raw) and absolutly nothing worked – we had months of him never being off lead cos there was nothing i could do or say to get him to listen – even asking him to sit was hard.
Eventually i have managed to be able to walk to the park in a off lead heal with him passing dogs, get him to do a 5 min down stay while dogs running around moved passed him, get him to come back to me in the middle of play ect all with the help of his fav ball.
It was so bad before i spent ages speaking to bev because i was so upset and down about it all. At one point my parents even told me that we may have to consider re-homing him because it was un fair on him. I would love to be able to have his full attention without the ball but right now apart from his temper i’m happy with him.
We now both love going out for walks – at one point he went 3 days without going for a walk granted it wasn’t all down to his behaviour there was a lot of that down to me and the bad stuff i was going through but i’m no longer fretting about him running off and up to a dog who could possibly growl at him for him then to do god knows what to it. i feel like i have my dog back whereas before he was just a stranger i really couldn’t bare to look at.

I know its not perfect but it’s the best it’s ever been and i really don’t want to go back by taking away the only thing that keeps both him and me sane.
but for his temper do you think that i could get in the ‘back off’ cue? i’m going to have to work on his leave as well as at the highest exciting place (flyball) it had 50% success rate ::)
[quote author=Mudgie link=topic=12335.msg238651#msg238651 date=1220196331]
Will help you all I can on Thursday – if your parents are willing to come back a little later for you then I will help you after flyball  :-*
[/quote]
that would be great mudgie :help:

if we had of met while out on a walk then dodge would have been fine with nooch but because the flyball is so exciting it gets dodger all pumped up meaning i’m afraid you see the worse of him ::)

[SuzAndTheDiva]

laura i wonder – is the flyball all maybe a bit too much just now? Maybe take a step back work with him in a calmer situation – THEN go back to the flyball? I dont know I cant really help too much training wise –  :-\ you know Bev is the best one to help  :-*

[.dodger.]

umm it could be. It was only he second week last week so i’m gunna give it a few more weeks and if no change i may have to think about giving him a brake from it.

[Anonymous]

quote :

but that is the only thing that will work.

then your dog is not focussed on you – like i said in your post about wanting to do more “exciting” things dodge needs ALOT more basic training.

all you’re doing taking him to FB is letting him do the behaviours you dont want and getting stressed about it into the bargain.

claire.

[Mudgie]

Laura lets chat on Thursday and we can come up with a plan for you to work on during the week to regain Dodgies focus on you so that at Flyball YOU relax more and you both enjoy it  😉

[Sweetypye]

I think that rather than using the word temper to describe your dog’s behaviour it may be more helpful to consider that he lacks impulse control?

Developing a dog’s self control is very important ESPECIALLY around areas of high arousal such as in your case Flyball.

A dog that is not focused and has no impulse control will not have his mind on the job or have a clear head.

Flyball and, to a lesser extent, agility, is not suited to all dogs and especially those who do not have sound foundations in control.

If the dog is wound up he will not be in a position to learn or exert self discipline.

A ball is a good management tool however with GSD in particular you have to be very careful that it does not become a crutch and that without it you have no control over the dog.

The following link may be helpful

http://deesdogs.com/documents/LoweringArousal.pdf

As your dog may have a high prey drive you may also find the following DVD very useful in training and developing self control.

http://www.learningaboutdogs.com/acatalog/whippitdvd.html

Allowing your dog to rehearse out of control behaviours and to be wound up will lead to decay of domestic control which in turn increases both the stress of the dog and you.

HTH

[kizkiznobite]

well said SP…laura all you are doing is allowing extinction of what you have been working so hard at…

my view of flyball is much akin to nick’s..as i have said before i hate it..both from a behaviour point of view and a health point of view…especially when there is no focus…the stimulus is too much…he cannot have self control..it like he hit with mind blowing drug…

he isnt ready hun…to be honest my heart sank when i read that you were taking him…

i am house sitting gracie in a couple of weeks while the newly weds go off into the sunset… 🙂

you only about an hour away…i will come and work with you both..in the meantime keep him away from flyball  :nono: ok  :agree:

and to save me adding to the other post…is the clove oil on leash for him ?  :-\

[.dodger.]

[quote author=Sweetypye link=topic=12335.msg238748#msg238748 date=1220261351]
I think that rather than using the word temper to describe your dog’s behaviour it may be more helpful to consider that he lacks impulse control?
[/quote]
that’s it exactly! couldn’t think how to describe it so just but it down as temper. thanks for the links sweetypye.

[quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=12335.msg238751#msg238751 date=1220261809]
well said SP…laura all you are doing is allowing extinction of what you have been working so hard at…

my view of flyball is much akin to nick’s..as i have said before i hate it..both from a behaviour point of view and a health point of view…especially when there is no focus…the stimulus is too much…he cannot have self control..it like he hit with mind blowing drug…

he isnt ready hun…to be honest my heart sank when i read that you were taking him…

i am house sitting gracie in a couple of weeks while the newly weds go off into the sunset… 🙂

you only about an hour away…i will come and work with you both..in the meantime keep him away from flyball  :nono: ok  :agree:

and to save me adding to the other post…is the clove oil on leash for him ?  :-\
[/quote]
no the clove oil isn’t for him 🙂

flyball certainly wasn’t my first choice but i just wanted to do something with him so badly this was the only thing i could do so thought i’d give it ago. The first week we went he was perfectly behaved – got snapped and growled at by 5 dogs and only reacted to 3 of them but soon carmed right down and just lay down next to me. I was having second thoughts about taking him because of how some of the dogs behaved and i didn’t want im to end up like them. think i’ll tell them next week i’m gunna give it a miss. Get dodge right on track first.
[quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=12335.msg238751#msg238751 date=1220261809]
i am house sitting gracie in a couple of weeks while the newly weds go off into the sunset… 🙂

you only about an hour away…i will come and work with you both..in the meantime keep him away from flyball  :nono: ok  :agree:
[/quote]
tha would be great bev :-* :-*

[Sweetypye]

Personally I am not a fan of flyball I could not cope with all that noise. and I am not sure it is the best thing for a GSD, or any large dog because of the strain it puts on their joints.

I realise many people can say the same about agility, working trials, schutzhund, but it is the one discipline I have always actively avoided (mainly cos there is not much, discipline that is)

(puts on helmet and retires behind parapet)!  :help:

[kizkiznobite]

to be able to do working trials and i guess Schutzhund too …the dog has to be ‘there’ already…and it the trapping of the focus while being highly cued when the ‘drive’ is up and running that makes a good worker…my worry about flyball is that it is the obsession that makes the dog perform and not the cued drive …and obsession means that the dog is not only hard to cue but actually goes off cue and also loses the ability to self protect…when ami was a youngster and in ‘obsession mode’ with gunner …in woods laid out for a shoot  ::) she went straight through a heavy gorse bush after a bird…can’t work a dog in that mode…or at least i can’t… :nono:

[Anonymous]

Take your helmet off SP I too hate the sport I know some do it on this board thats their choice but I have seen the injuries this sport can cause, I know even a walk in the park can bring on a limp but I have seen major injuries, IMO I wish they would stop making such a thing of it at Crufts and Discover Dogs.
As the majority of dogs are BC they are manic enough without the other breed have always thought it brings out the worse in other breeds, plus they are more prone to injury.
I too shuddered when you said you were going Laura  :-* I know how you wanted to do something with him but flyball ain’t for him.
Hugs Laura Bev will sort him I am sure he’s a lovely boy just needs pointing in the right direction he’s a big boy with a big brain he deserves better than repetitive flyball.
Val

[quote author=Sweetypye link=topic=12335.msg238762#msg238762 date=1220265870]
Personally I am not a fan of flyball I could not cope with all that noise. and I am not sure it is the best thing for a GSD, or any large dog because of the strain it puts on their joints.

I realise many people can say the same about agility, working trials, schutzhund, but it is the one discipline I have always actively avoided (mainly cos there is not much, discipline that is)

(puts on helmet and retires behind parapet)!  :help:
[/quote]

[Kerry_and_Beau]

hi laura, i was doing exactly this before bev came, that was the only way i could keep beau’s attention but as bev said, what happens when i lose a ball (and i have lost hundreds) so she compromised with me, if i have to have a ball then fine BUT i am in charge of the ball and play time, so we started by basically making beau give the ball directly into my hand instead of throwing it at me and dashing off….

then it progressed to sometimes we will and sometimes we won’t….. exactly as it sounds, i’ll throw when i feel like it or i’ll shove it into my pocket for a while….an no him throwing himself at me and climbing up me and trying to chew the ball out of my pocket, nipping my ass and whizzing around me in circles doesn’t get the ball  :nono:

but him being calm would, but saying that he had to be able to walk along with me calmly and sit etc when asked (i must have looked like a right loon)  ;D anyway so now after incorporating leave we can sit & leave lob the ball as far as possible then send to retrieve, i’m in control of the ball, we now also have a lovely (just carry it then) for when he is puffed out and he’ll trot along carrying it quietly.

so don’t worry bev will be able to sort you out one way or another, ball or no ball  :-*

[**Woofums**]

My 2 get very hyped up doing flyball in the garden…even my girl, who has no ball drive at all.
I’d hate to think how they’d behave with other Dogs in a similar frame of mind.

Chad has a ball on a rope….he’s not obsessed by it, but he loves a game of tug after good work.
I don’t use a lot of treats so his ball is his reward.
I’ve only just got him focussed enough to enjoy agility with him….6 months ago he was a nightmare rushing at equipment & leaping about. So I had 6 months off & hardly did anything with him.

Dogs mature at different rates…you may find in 6 months he’ll be like a different boy.

[Author]

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